Miffy2A Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Hi folks, Looks like I may have some time on my hands soon, so wanting to make the most of it I want to squirt my Rangie. She's used for mostly road/towing so waterproofing etc isn't an issue, so I'm leaning away from coil packs, EDIS and all that gubbins. Current dizzy is Lucas 35DLM8 with the amp. module attached to it. A quick run down of the motor: Hotwire 3.9 EFI fitted with Lund LE1 camshaft, Heddman Hedders, lightly ported heads, K&N filter (in airbox). Runs on either Vpower (quick blasts) or on LPG (single point OMVL r90e). I like the idea of being able to tune with a laptop (as I can for LPG) and would like to be able to setup different maps for LPG and petrol. I'm looking at the MS1 Extra setup (from Phil @ ExtraEFI). What else will I need to get started? I think trigger wheel+sensor, extra lambda sensor (the LPG system has one already). Is it worth adding say an ign. upgrade like say Petronix Ignitor/Flamethrower coil at the same time. Any comments & suggestions very welcome, as I'm still trying to get my head round all this MS stuff! Eventually (once I'm used MS) I want to single point inject my 3.0 straight 6 in the 109. She already pulls like a train, but I think theres a lot more potential in those engines. Thanks in advance, Ell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 If you want tunable ignition then you need either a locked dizzy and ignition driver, or EDIS. Frankly EDIS is less hassle to set up and very reliable. £40 for a trigger wheel, £40 for the unit, £10 for the coil packs and gubbins from the scrappy. That's less than you'll pay for a Petronix setup, with the bonus that you're ditching the dizzy rather than still relying on it. Keeping your dizzy you would only be able to tune the petrol fuelling unless you also connected the LPG injectors to the MS and ran with table switching, which is doable but I've not tried it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miffy2A Posted February 18, 2008 Author Share Posted February 18, 2008 Thanks Fridge, So if I added EDIS I'd be able to do everything. Ok, I think that maybe the way to go then. I'll re-read through some of the previous posts and pay attention to the EDIS bit now. Will probably have a stack load more questions after that! Cheers Ell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Keeping your dizzy you would only be able to tune the petrol fuelling unless you also connected the LPG injectors to the MS and ran with table switching, which is doable but I've not tried it. Except that Ell is running a single point LPG system, which doesn't have any injectors just a stepper motor controlling the flow of gas into a venturi on the intake, so Megasquirt can't be used unless he replaces quite a bit of his LPG kit. Take a look under the bottom of that rusty old wreckfine piece of solihull luxury engineering you have sat outside at the moment - that has a single point kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Well if you haven't got LPG injectors you can't use MS to control them, simple If you really wanted to be bloody minded about it you could upgrade to an MS2 and use the stepper motor drive but I suspect you'd have to do a fair bit of your own programming Oh and in case anyone should be interested I have a few wiring tails for sale as well as the usual ECU's, EDIS-8's and assorted sundries. I've got a Freelander engine to pay for after all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Shurvinton Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Except that Ell is running a single point LPG system, which doesn't have any injectors just a stepper motor controlling the flow of gas into a venturi on the intake, so Megasquirt can't be used unless he replaces quite a bit of his LPG kit. Take a look under the bottom of that rusty old wreckfine piece of solihull luxury engineering you have sat outside at the moment - that has a single point kit. Something else I intend to get under ECU control at some point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickm Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I was quoted £109 for the ecu last week flywheel £35 sparky bits £80 new leads £50 + a bit of wiring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 When it comes to the ECU do be aware that there some real cowboys jumping on the £s band wagon out there, with some offering "Built ECUs" that look like they have been made up by a drunk Forest Gump Bill or Fridge are both worth talking to supply wise flywheel £35 - do you mean trigger wheel ? - there are loads that don't fit, make sure its correct OD ID sparky bits £80 HOW MUCH ?...I bought 3x Ford Mondeo coil packs for £35 from a scrappy with plugs and mounts new leads £50 ??? Dpends on where the packs are going as to the klengths, many make up their own leads by cutting off the dizzy end and recrimping on a ford cap to suit + a bit of wiring ( more wiring than you 1st think) Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickm Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Sorry yes the trigger wheel the quote i was given was from trigger-wheels so guessing the ecu should be a good one they also sell all the mounting brackets that are needed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 By "£109 for the ECU" I take it you mean the EDIS-8 unit? Because as far as I'm aware a MegaSquirt, even in kit form, costs more than that. Also looks like I'll have to charge more for my EDIS-8's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 100 quid for edis-8? Think i'll just buy from the states then - $50 delivered (ebay) - or 75% cheaper.... edit - trigger-wheels.com list edis 8, 2x coilpacks and VR sensor for £79.99 Megajolt Lite Jnr (not megasquirt) is £99.99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickm Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 100 quid for edis-8?Think i'll just buy from the states then - $50 delivered (ebay) - or 75% cheaper.... I'm sure they were the prices i was given last week it was for a megajolt system (what ever that is) But I was getting a bit confuddled with all this ms and edis stuff was from here http://trigger-wheels.com/store/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 See my post above, megajolt is not megasquirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I realise I'm biased but I'd buy the EDIS-8 on its own (I sell them for £40 forum price, or there's America), the trigger wheel from trigger-wheels.com and then source the rest of the bits from the scrappy. Just pull the HT leads & connector and check for any water ingress and grab a few of everything - coil packs with brackets, VR sensors (torx bit required to undo) and a bundle of Ford HT leads with the ends. As I said, I have MS ECU's, EDIS-8's, wiring tails and IAT sensors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 £40 sounds reasonable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Shurvinton Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 For ign only MJ is good. They are now made by a friend of mine as I simply couldn't support the demand along with MS. Keep meaning to do a SM redesign but other things get in the way. Your $50 becomes £45 by the time parcel farce have fleeced you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I have to applaud Fridgefreezers work to date, Im having a second unit off him as well this week. Ive not compared prices, but even if Fridge is slightly more expensive, its worth it for the technical backup, he has the knowledge of the V8 electrics and can answer specific questions. Your $50 becomes £45 by the time parcel farce have fleeced you... Yep, Ive just been caught out with the £8 handling fee and vat on a starter motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Shurvinton Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I have to applaud Fridgefreezers work to date, Im having a second unit off him as well this week. Ah good. Helps in my negotiations with him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landybehr Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Ell, why do you want a MS-1 ? IMHO the MS-2 can do what MS-1 can (there may be some arguments for one or the other), plus driving the stepper motor. This may seem to add complexity but OTOH you already have the hardware there on your 3.9. AFAIKS the results of most of the current code development will be open to MS-2 only. There are some nice options. Most appealing to me is the closed loop idle speed control (promises to keep the idle RPM steady when the engine is put under load from autotrans or aircon). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 MS-2 is just a plug-in CPU upgrade to an MS-1 ECU, a bit like putting more RAM in your PC. True it gives you many more bells & whistles, but then MS-1 isn't exactly short of them with the "extra" firmware. The MegaSquirt'n'Spark-Extra code that most of us run on our MS-1 ECU's will do closed-loop idle with a PWM valve which are easily sourced, and TBH are probably cheaper and more reliable than the stock stepper motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Shurvinton Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 MS2 is IO limited compared to MS1 so you cannot take advantage of a lot of the processing power unless you add the GPIO board. Stepper vs PWM idle aside its a matter of taste as to which CPU does it for you. You can certainly implement more advanced algorithms on MS2, but few actually tune that last few % Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miffy2A Posted February 22, 2008 Author Share Posted February 22, 2008 I don't think I'll use all the extra functionionality of MS2 (not yet at least!) I'm still trying to get my head around it all. Fridge you have a PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 MS2 is IO limited compared to MS1 so you cannot take advantage of a lot of the processing power unless you add the GPIO board. Stepper vs PWM idle aside its a matter of taste as to which CPU does it for you. You can certainly implement more advanced algorithms on MS2, but few actually tune that last few % Using MS1 you can get a 2 wire PWM valve to behave acceptably without too many issues ..........................I guess mine is 95% OK ........... I will tune out the odd 5% when I get time, but I may be restricted on the ability of the algorithm to reach 100% perfection, but its not important. I guess the biggest frustration for me is the folk that either dismiss MS or have real issues with the implementation.................MS is a tool and solution to provide a means to an end ............... its not a bloody magic wand .........................To get the best from it you need a full understanding of how an engine works and what is required to make it function correctly..................... Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco_al Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 has anyone suffered from the Ford coils failing with MS yet? we supply upwards of 5/6 month in the normal course of business here (motor factors). focus/late fiesta's use them as well if you wanted another source of supply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 None here - I keep a spare one, I just bought a pile of them from the scrappy as it was dirty cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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