In need of some tdi experts/guru’s

[The Hatt]

In need of some tdi experts/guru’s.

I’m trying to find out where the weak links are in the 200 and 300tdi engines in terms of making big power or rather how strong are the stock internals.

So my question is how much power can these engines take before you can expect failure, be it a crack piston, piston rings, bent con rod, cracking the head, etc.

Anyone know of anyone running BIG Hp on these motors? Maybe like 230-300bhp and 400-450lb ft?

[freeagent]

In need of some tdi experts/guru’s.

I’m trying to find out where the weak links are in the 200 and 300tdi engines in terms of making big power or rather how strong are the stock internals.

So my question is how much power can these engines take before you can expect failure, be it a crack piston, piston rings, bent con rod, cracking the head, etc.

Anyone know of anyone running BIG Hp on these motors? Maybe like 230-300bhp and 400-450lb ft?

I think that you'd struggle to achieve 200bhp, and anything above that would be seriously unreliable, and cost you a fortune to do

it would also be burning more fuel than a V8...

200bhp is achievable from a td5, but that is getting towards its limits.

if you want 300bhp out of a landrover, the most cost effective way is to fit it with a V8.

[The Hatt]

I think that you'd struggle to achieve 200bhp, and anything above that would be seriously unreliable, and cost you a fortune to do

Thanks for replying

When you say seriously unreliable, do you have experience of this or know someone who has had failed pistons at lower hp levels?

it would also be burning more fuel than a V8...

nope - will explain...

200bhp is achievable from a td5, but that is getting towards its limits.

As my understanding goes people get this level of power with just exhaust, intake, intercooler and tuning and still remain emissions legal without a cat. I've not know of this actually pushing the engine to it's limits, just a limit most consider after having spent a few grand.

BUT, if I'm wrong and you know of actual engine failures at this level please please post some more info.

if you want 300bhp out of a landrover, the most cost effective way is to fit it with a V8.

lol :lol: :lol:

I take it you've never tried tuning a Rover V8 then, no offence meant but the Rover V8 is old, inefficient and horrendously expensive to modify not too mention likes far too much of a drink.

Please note, if you disagree, don't like or have no experience with this tuning method please don't bash. There is a lot of information available and I'll be happy to supply what info I can.

Ok currently the vehicle is running a modified exhaust, tweaked injector pump, full width intercooler and upped boost (it's a 200tdi). So pretty regular tuning stuff. The engine is 100% stock otherwise.

Allisport claim a 35% increase in performance. Well I don't have figures but it certainly runs better and a simple calculation gives me (111bhp + 35% and 195lb ft + 35%) ~150bhp/263lb ft +-

Now for the interesting bit - well its called nitrous oxide :blink:

Yes I know many claim it blows up engines and shouldn't be used. But those self same people also used to claim superchargers and turbo's do the same. But history has proven them to be reliable.

Nitrous has been a proven technology for over 30 years.

My intent is fuelling permitted to attempt to run a 100 shot or greater, but while turbo diesels are usually built tougher due to their design requirements (18:1 CR, etc.) I don't know what limits a Landy tdi has.

In the nitrous world there are several guys running 1.9 turbo diesels and making great reliable power. The Vauxhall unit has proven successful with its newer common rail design and has reliably produced 250bhp/380lb ft from a 1.9!!!!

The VW direct injection 1.9 has also proven capable of in excess of 230bhp with ease. With the larger displacement of the tdi and ease of being able to tune the Bosch injector pump I hoping more will be attainable.

[freeagent]

Nitrous oxide will probably give you the power figures you are talking about, but only in bursts of under 1 minute.

I thought you were looking to actually tune the engine to achieve those figures, rather than just blowing gas into it.

There are weak points in every engine, and stregthening them will work, but ultimately just expose another component as the weakest.

I don't have much knowledge of strengthening engine internals, nor does it interest me particularly.

I'd try to get hold of Lara on here, he has built up a serious Td5 engine with a new crank, etc.

[The Hatt]

I agree nitrous is only good while the bottle is full.

But it won't be active all the time or even armed. A lot of time it'd be switched off and when armed only kick in at WOT and with the use of a progressive controller it should be fairly efficient.

Plus other tuning methods only generally offer the goods at set rpm or throttle conditions so its not all that different.

The idea is more for road use than off road, although I guess in certain off road situations a tad more HP wouldn't go amiss

Thanks for your help.

[DaveSIIA]

I can't comment on how robust a 200/300 Tdi would be when making big HP. However, one of the limiting factors will be the Bosch VE injection pump. Bosch rate this as up to 25kW (33.5bhp) per cylinder, which equates to ~134bhp. The 150bhp figures from the likes of Allisport, etc are probably the realistic upper limit for the VE pump.

An alternative might be the VR pump (with appropriate injectors) which is rated to 50kW per cylinder (~270bhp), so should give you a good starting point. You'll need some form of electronic control for the solenoid valve, but that should be tractable these days.

[The Hatt]

I can't comment on how robust a 200/300 Tdi would be when making big HP. However, one of the limiting factors will be the Bosch VE injection pump. Bosch rate this as up to 25kW (33.5bhp) per cylinder, which equates to ~134bhp. The 150bhp figures from the likes of Allisport, etc are probably the realistic upper limit for the VE pump.

An alternative might be the VR pump (with appropriate injectors) which is rated to 50kW per cylinder (~270bhp), so should give you a good starting point. You'll need some form of electronic control for the solenoid valve, but that should be tractable these days.

Thanks that's some really useful info. I know of a device that can replace the smoke screw on the pump and is actuated when the nitrous is in use to add extra fuel.

Do you know, these ratings from Bosch are they what they expect the pump to be used for in stock trim. Does tweaking the pump alter these figures?

Thanks again

[RangeyRover]

And if you are going to use gas, why not lpg?

I read somewhere about using lpg as a power booster in diesel LR's

In fact it was on this forum....

Found the link

http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/lpgsys.html#lpg

[Bush65]

I have no interest in nitro - not practical for what I do. I believe I could get 200 HP from a 300Tdi without nitro. I don't have any experience with the 200Tdi.

The Cummins 3.9 litre, 4BT owners are getting much more power with the Bosch VE pump (like the 300Tdi). Cummins owners have done a lot more with the VE pump than any Land Rover owner I know of. For example they get good gains from changing the governor spring (but this may be because the stock 4BT is so low revving).

And others are getting around 200HP from the VW Tdi with VE pump. But their vehicles are much lighter than our Land Rovers and they don't go off road, so low down torque requirements are different. They also do more to their VE pumps, like fitting a larger piston.

So it is possible to get enough fuel from the VE pump to make in excess of 200HP, given enough air. With a suitable turbo and intercooler it should be possible to get enough air. The main problem is finding a turbo with a compressor that is reasonably efficient at the required pressure ratio - those I know of are too large and would have problems with surge, so compounds would be the go (probably use a VNT as the small turbo.

My biggest concern with extracting 200HP from the 300Tdi is head gasket failure. I understand there are full metal gaskets available now, and with a set of ARP head studs, the gasket may live with the needed boost pressure between 30 and 40 psi. If not then O-rings would be required.

I would also balance the engine and replace the main bearing cap bolts with ARP studs.

Then we get into driveline issues, but that is off topic.

[freeagent]

Thanks for replying

When you say seriously unreliable, do you have experience of this or know someone who has had failed pistons at lower hp levels?

nope - will explain...

As my understanding goes people get this level of power with just exhaust, intake, intercooler and tuning and still remain emissions legal without a cat. I've not know of this actually pushing the engine to it's limits, just a limit most consider after having spent a few grand.

BUT, if I'm wrong and you know of actual engine failures at this level please please post some more info.

lol :lol: :lol:

I take it you've never tried tuning a Rover V8 then, no offence meant but the Rover V8 is old, inefficient and horrendously expensive to modify not too mention likes far too much of a drink.

Please note, if you disagree, don't like or have no experience with this tuning method please don't bash. There is a lot of information available and I'll be happy to supply what info I can.

Ok currently the vehicle is running a modified exhaust, tweaked injector pump, full width intercooler and upped boost (it's a 200tdi). So pretty regular tuning stuff. The engine is 100% stock otherwise.

Allisport claim a 35% increase in performance. Well I don't have figures but it certainly runs better and a simple calculation gives me (111bhp + 35% and 195lb ft + 35%) ~150bhp/263lb ft +-

Now for the interesting bit - well its called nitrous oxide :blink:

Yes I know many claim it blows up engines and shouldn't be used. But those self same people also used to claim superchargers and turbo's do the same. But history has proven them to be reliable.

Nitrous has been a proven technology for over 30 years.

My intent is fuelling permitted to attempt to run a 100 shot or greater, but while turbo diesels are usually built tougher due to their design requirements (18:1 CR, etc.) I don't know what limits a Landy tdi has.

In the nitrous world there are several guys running 1.9 turbo diesels and making great reliable power. The Vauxhall unit has proven successful with its newer common rail design and has reliably produced 250bhp/380lb ft from a 1.9!!!!

The VW direct injection 1.9 has also proven capable of in excess of 230bhp with ease. With the larger displacement of the tdi and ease of being able to tune the Bosch injector pump I hoping more will be attainable.

to be honest, I thought his attitude was a bit condecending, particulary as he's new on here...

[The Hatt]

to be honest, I thought his attitude was a bit condecending, particulary as he's new on here...

sorry not meant to be. if it helps point out the bits you don't like and I'll edit them

[The Hatt]

And if you are going to use gas, why not lpg?

I read somewhere about using lpg as a power booster in diesel LR's

In fact it was on this forum....

Found the link

http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/lpgsys.html#lpg

yeah I've got a Lr mag somewhere with a LPG article in.

Think its more that nitrous is easy to setup, can be bought as a kit for the purpose and produce more hp. On another forum someone has lpg on their VW which they are removing as it doesn't give as much gain as hoped. Think they said about 12bhp on the dyno where nitrous was offering up over 70hp

[will_warne]

Right, its a good question. For the sort of power you're looking at you're going to have to get quite serious. The problem is 2 fold - making the engine take the power and actually trying to get it.

First off, making the engine strong enough:

Cranks aren't amazing or that well balanced. The 2.8 addressed this area with a machined (rather than cast) crank. Given its not unheard of for cranks to break I'd look at sorting this especially with the sort of torque you're considering.

Rod have also been known to fail. I'd certainly look into having some uprated rods made especially as I'd be looking to try and make the engine rev a little more.

Pistons are going to have a hard time with these sorts of figures. You've going to have big problems with the combustion temperature with these sorts of figures so I'd look at uprated pistons and probably ceramic coated jut for a bit of protection.

The head would want studding and uprated head bolts used. I'd also gas flow and port (it can only help) as well as trying to squeeze in some bigger valves. Of course you'll want to port the manifolds to suit.

This little lot is going to cost a fortune and the head and crank were addressed on the 2.8 tgv. I'm also told that the factory did produce a 200bhp model but I'm yet to see details of it. IMHO it would be a better, cheaper place to start for a hot engine.

Getting the power:

For air - On top of the port I'd also try an ACR hi lift cam as this is supposed to help performance of Tdi's quite a bit. Given you'll probably want to run at slightly higher rpms you'll also need to select a turbo carfully. I'd want a VNT turbo to get the best possible power band.

For fuel - I know on the 2.8 the real tuning limit is the fuel pump. I've spoken to a couple of people about trying to make a high flow version but the opinion was it would be very hit and miss as far as the map goes. I have, however, found a guy who's developed some custom, high flow, injectors for the 2.8. This should help a little. I'd want to also be looking at propane to help burn all the fuel you've got.

Basically, I think there will be big issues getting 300bhp from these engines. My target for my 2.8 is 220 bhp and 450 lb/ft on propane as I think I will struggle to break 200 without it. That's right at the end of the list of things to do though.....

[The Hatt]

I have no interest in nitro - not practical for what I do.

First off thanks for your reply, and my comments are not meant as how someone else put it "condocending" so I apologies in advance as they are just comments.

I intend to use nitrous not nitro (as in nitromethane that top fuel dragsters run on).

And as a side question, is there any reason you have no interest in nitrous? Just curious about the why behind the decision.

I believe I could get 200 HP from a 300Tdi without nitro. I don't have any experience with the 200Tdi.

As far as I know the engines are pretty similar, and there is a chance that I may have a 300tdi to use.

The Cummins 3.9 litre, 4BT owners are getting much more power with the Bosch VE pump (like the 300Tdi). Cummins owners have done a lot more with the VE pump than any Land Rover owner I know of. For example they get good gains from changing the governor spring (but this may be because the stock 4BT is so low revving).

And others are getting around 200HP from the VW Tdi with VE pump. But their vehicles are much lighter than our Land Rovers and they don't go off road, so low down torque requirements are different. They also do more to their VE pumps, like fitting a larger piston.

Thanks

So it is possible to get enough fuel from the VE pump to make in excess of 200HP, given enough air. With a suitable turbo and intercooler it should be possible to get enough air. The main problem is finding a turbo with a compressor that is reasonably efficient at the required pressure ratio - those I know of are too large and would have problems with surge, so compounds would be the go (probably use a VNT as the small turbo.

Intent is to use stock turbo, nitrous will be injected as a dry kit direct into the intake manifold. So the turbo and intercooler themselves should, as I understand it have minimal affect. There will be increased cylinder pressure though.

My biggest concern with extracting 200HP from the 300Tdi is head gasket failure. I understand there are full metal gaskets available now, and with a set of ARP head studs, the gasket may live with the needed boost pressure between 30 and 40 psi. If not then O-rings would be required.

Do you know where I could get these gaskets from? Thanks.

I would also balance the engine and replace the main bearing cap bolts with ARP studs.

Trying to keep cost down. The engine was only £470 and the nitrous will be under a grand so sadly don't have funds to do a full and expensive rebuild on it.

Then we get into driveline issues, but that is off topic.

umm yes

Currently in my thoughts too. It depends which route I go. I know that in reality the LT77 or LT77s stand no chance with these torque levels, so that rules out the LT85 and the R380 too. However if I opt for a progressive controller I should be able to minimise the shock load to the driveline. If I opt to use the 300tdi instead then thats got an auto on it so should be ok for a bit. As for the rest of the driveline think I'll look at replacing bits with HD units as and when they break.

Thanks for your help.

BTW - do you have links for the US websites modding the little Cummins? Ta

[The Hatt]

A BIG thanks to everyone who has posted so far. Its all helping.

Keep it com'in

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Thanks for replying

I take it you've never tried tuning a Rover V8 then, no offence meant but the Rover V8 is old, inefficient and horrendously expensive to modify not too mention likes far too much of a drink.

The RV8 is old, but its is not hugely expensive to extract a reliable 300bhp from a 4.6 ..................... or 260ish from a 3.9

The work you will need to do to a 200 / 300tdi to get the same sort of power reliably will be far in excess of the equivalent RV8 spend.

I guess that is should also be noted that a good tuned V8 will give 300 ponies all day long and considerably more if shot with gas............. the diesel power you are aiming for will only be available in short bursts and you will be surprised how quickly you can empty a NOS cylinder.................

Yes I know many claim it blows up engines and shouldn't be used. But those self same people also used to claim superchargers and turbo's do the same. But history has proven them to be reliable.

Nitrous has been a proven technology for over 30 years.

Yes, NOS is proven ................... but not proven with the LR diesels ........................

Folks on here have had problems with melted pistons, broken elastic bands, broken rockers, broken tappet slides, blown turbos, cracked exhaust manifold, etc etc and this is on standard or just very mildly tuned engines (slight boost & fueling increase)..............

Where are you going to get decent parts for these engines ............... who manufactures decent forged pistons, off the shelf rods, etc ? I know that Julian (Lara) when he built his 2.8, had these items (and the crank) specially manufactured ............. that engine is giving a known reliable 285bhp (Julian also has his own dyno).......

I guess John has already pointed out many of the limitations ................. but another question is .............. how are you going to control the EGT when applying the NOS shot ................. the 200 & 300's are very susceptible to high EGT's.........

In the nitrous world there are several guys running 1.9 turbo diesels and making great reliable power. The Vauxhall unit has proven successful with its newer common rail design and has reliably produced 250bhp/380lb ft from a 1.9!!!!

The VW direct injection 1.9 has also proven capable of in excess of 230bhp with ease. With the larger displacement of the tdi and ease of being able to tune the Bosch injector pump I hoping more will be attainable.

These engines are a better choice....... their design is totally different to that of a LR tractor engine. The VW in particular is an extremely strong design that is race proven......................

TBH my view is that you will raining against the wind , as the base engine is not that capable........................

Ian

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Trying to keep cost down. The engine was only £470 and the nitrous will be under a grand so sadly don't have funds to do a full and expensive rebuild on it.

For less than £1470, I could get well in excess of 300 ponies from a RV8 using the pro shot fogger (DPI) direct port injection (£600 + £200 for the bottle and valves) ................even using a cheater plate on a 4 barrel will give you an extra 200 pony kick in the pants.............

Another issue................... the price of NOS has risen very steeply over the last few years and can become quite cost prohibitive as the enjoyment factor increases ........................a 15lb bottle runs out real quick.............. the more common 10lb bottle runs out even quicker................ I guess it might be economic if you are a dentist or you work for the NHS

Ian

[The Hatt]

The RV8 is old, but its is not hugely expensive to extract a reliable 300bhp from a 4.6 ..................... or 260ish from a 3.9

I guess that is should also be noted that a good tuned V8 will give 300 ponies all day long and considerably more if shot with gas.............

I’d be REALLY interested in knowing how to attain this sort of power all day long from these V8’s. I’ve spent years with the RV8 and have a fairly highly modified one but it wasn’t cheap or easy. And doesn’t make low end grunt like a turbo diesel.

I’m not knocking at all, I’m honestly very interested in this. I’m also a member of the v8owners.org forum and making this kind of n/a power from an Rv8 on this kind of budget is as far as I know unheard of.

the diesel power you are aiming for will only be available in short bursts and you will be surprised how quickly you can empty a NOS cylinder.................

I’m not wanting this to turn into a how good an idea is nitrous thread. Ta.

Yes, NOS is proven ................... but not proven with the LR diesels

Yep, that’s why I’m trying to do a little research on the weaknesses in the tdi units.

Folks on here have had problems with melted pistons, broken elastic bands, broken rockers, broken tappet slides, blown turbos, cracked exhaust manifold, etc etc and this is on standard or just very mildly tuned engines (slight boost & fueling increase)..............

This is all good info, do you have any specifics examples you could point me at. I’m interested I the exact nature of the failure and where possible the cause.

I’m also experienced in modified tdi’s, I’m on my 3rd and I have several friends running modified ones.

Where are you going to get decent parts for these engines ............... who manufactures decent forged pistons, off the shelf rods, etc ? I know that Julian (Lara) when he built his 2.8, had these items (and the crank) specially manufactured ............. that engine is giving a known reliable 285bhp (Julian also has his own dyno).......

Well this depends largely on where the weaknesses lie. I’m not out to make the most HP ever. Just more HP at reasonable cost with the engines I already have and while retaining a simple electronic free setup and diesel levels of mpg.

I guess John has already pointed out many of the limitations ................. but another question is .............. how are you going to control the EGT when applying the NOS shot ................. the 200 & 300's are very susceptible to high EGT's.........

Unknown.

But by monitoring them with a gage and sensor and running a larger diameter exhaust off the down pipe and see how I get on.

I guess the question is how do other people control EGT’s on tuned diesels?

These engines are a better choice....... their design is totally different to that of a LR tractor engine. The VW in particular is an extremely strong design that is race proven......................

But I don’t have one of those engines.

If money was not an issue then obvious choices string to mind of the 2.4 DOHC in the new Defender, the 2.7 V6 in the D3/Jag S-Type, the RR 3.6 V8 or one of the American diesels, Ford V8 or Cummins 5.9

TBH my view is that you will raining against the wind , as the base engine is not that capable........................

Ian

Thanks.

For less than £1470, I could get well in excess of 300 ponies from a RV8 using the pro shot fogger (DPI) direct port injection (£600 + £200 for the bottle and valves) ................even using a cheater plate on a 4 barrel will give you an extra 200 pony kick in the pants.............

Maybe but I’ll never use anything but a WON (Wizards of Nos) nitrous setup for reasons which become obvious after a little research Not knocking other systems but the research is quite compelling.

Also I’d like to see an RV8 do 24+mpg in a 2 ton Disco running 34” tyres.

Another issue................... the price of NOS has risen very steeply over the last few years and can become quite cost prohibitive as the enjoyment factor increases ........................a 15lb bottle runs out real quick.............. the more common 10lb bottle runs out even quicker................ I guess it might be economic if you are a dentist or you work for the NHS

Ian

Thanks for this I’ll bear it in mind. As you seem to know your stuff how does £4/lb of nitrous sound? I’ve been quoted this for refills and somewhere in the £3/lb if I have a large storage tank at home and buy in bulk.

Thanks again.

[dollythelw]

so you know lots about nos but seem unfamiliar about the crown temperature effects of running it...?

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

I’d be REALLY interested in knowing how to attain this sort of power all day long from these V8’s.

I’m not knocking at all, I’m honestly very interested in this. I’m also a member of the v8owners.org forum and making this kind of n/a power from an Rv8 on this kind of budget is as far as I know unheard of.

I am also a member of the same forum ...................not knocking it, but not many on there have definitive dyno figures............but then again, some have some pretty impressive 1/4 mile run times.............

Building a engine is one thing ......................... building a race engine is something very different, and its not expense that I am talking about here.

Also I’d like to see an RV8 do 24+mpg in a 2 ton Disco running 34” tyres.

I have been known to get 20+ mpg from my 2T defender truck cab running 35 in tyres.............. the 3.9 V8 develops about 320ftlbs and 240bhp......... yes, it has plenty of low down torque with the max being delivered at 2800 rpm............. but fairly flat from 2500 to 3000 rpm........

This is the dyno graph, measured at the wheels

how does £4/lb of nitrous sound? I’ve been quoted this for refills and somewhere in the £3/lb if I have a large storage tank at home and buy in bulk.

Thanks again.

The price is good.............. £5 per pound is the norm...................... but your prices are still about £40 a tank............... thats a lot of money for a few seconds of fun............

I seriously doubt whether you will get insurance and local authority planning for bulk storage.............

Ian

[The Hatt]

so you know lots about nos but seem unfamiliar about the crown temperature effects of running it...?

Nope never claimed to know a lot or anything about nitrous, just that its proven. At least haven't meant to claim anything but that.....

Help is needed please

Could you add a little light to these crown temperature effects please.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Right.

I am NOT a diesel Guru

But

Tuning any engine means your pushing the limits of it all "letting go"

A 200 TDi is not exactly the most 'dynamic' engine for tuning, with or without NOS, but more can be got from any engine,

some are just more rewarding than others.

The more you tune the more stresses go into the Unit (and drivetrain)

Your saying the engines 'cheap',..... and you don't wnat to spend £££s on a rebuild,

erm.....

well this is going to mean you have a engine "Not exactly in the flush of 1st yoof" which your going

to screw in NOS and ask a whole load more of ?

Most supercharged / NOS / Turbo'd units are when done properly done at vast ££s otherwise the relaiblity - er .....well you won't have any.

Asking for 100+ BHP more from a '50s designed Moon Mileage Deep Fat Fryer' will see a result "not wished for" pronto.

On the other hand if your on the "It goes pop when it goes pop " basis .........then thats a whole different matter

Frankly NOS is interesting,

limited application,

and on a Moon Mileage 50s DFF unit fitted to a Truck with the aerodynamics of a small bungalow on springs will be "Interesting"......

.....pre it going "Pop"

For a fighting chance : ?

Bottom end rebuild Crank Main and Ends

Piston rings rods and pistons checked / clearances / tolerances

Full rotational balance

ARP Stud set or equivalent

New elastic Band

AA Card (Pref with Relay Recovery )

New Testament Bible or Hymn Book glued to rocker cover

Nige

[The Hatt]

I am also a member of the same forum ...................not knocking it, but not many on there have definitive dyno figures............but then again, some have some pretty impressive 1/4 mile run times.............

Building a engine is one thing ......................... building a race engine is something very different, and its not expense that I am talking about here.

I have been known to get 20+ mpg from my 2T defender truck cab running 35 in tyres..............

Well that’s impressive but I do somewhat struggle to believe that’s an average mpg. Between myself, my brother and my father we have owned about 8+ different Rover V8 vehicles (various vehicles) and none have come close to that kind of mpg figure in a vehicle of that sort of weight. I’ve got a V8 TR7 which will in all honesty return 22-24mpg but it weighs less than 1200kg, is 2wd and fairly aerodynamic.

But hay if you say you get 20mpg thumbs up

the 3.9 V8 develops about 320ftlbs and 240bhp......... yes, it has plenty of low down torque with the max being delivered at 2800 rpm............. but fairly flat from 2500 to 3000 rpm........

This is the dyno graph, measured at the wheels

Nice figures but still no 300bhp.

240 / 3.9 is only 62bhp per litre. Working on the same specific output a 4.6 would only be producing a tad over 280bhp.

But it still sounds like an awesome engine.

I can’t quite get my head around the numbers though, the dyno graph only shows a PEAK of 165hp, yes I know its whp. But unless my maths it totally pe-tong that means you are loosing 30%+ of your engine power via the drivetrain. It seems a little steep based on my previous research in this area.

Please correct me if I missed something out…

I seriously doubt whether you will get insurance and local authority planning for bulk storage.............

Not sure why I’d need either insurance or local authority planning to hold a moderate amount of nitrous oxide. I’m not talking articulated tanker, lol

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Well that’s impressive but I do somewhat struggle to believe that’s an average mpg. Between myself, my brother and my father we have owned about 8+ different Rover V8 vehicles (various vehicles) and none have come close to that kind of mpg figure in a vehicle of that sort of weight. I’ve got a V8 TR7 which will in all honesty return 22-24mpg but it weighs less than 1200kg, is 2wd and fairly aerodynamic.

But hay if you say you get 20mpg thumbs up

Not its not average..... and neither will yours be when you start prodiucing the power !.................... if I use the power then 12 mpg is more realistic........

Nice figures but still no 300bhp.

240 / 3.9 is only 62bhp per litre. Working on the same specific output a 4.6 would only be producing a tad over 280bhp.

But it still sounds like an awesome engine.

It was never meant to be 300bhp............... not difficult to do, but 3.9's with that sort of power are difficult to live with...............

300 ponies from a 4.6 would be a better option, but I defy you to tell the difference between 284 and 300 bhp...............however, its not power that counts......... torque is what we want and we want it exactly in the right place on the rev band....................

I can’t quite get my head around the numbers though, the dyno graph only shows a PEAK of 165hp, yes I know its whp. But unless my maths it totally pe-tong that means you are loosing 30%+ of your engine power via the drivetrain. It seems a little steep based on my previous research in this area.

Please correct me if I missed something out…

Yes.............. 30%+ is the norm for and antiquated LR drive system.............. using different oils and making sure the wheel bearing, brakes and tyres aee all perfect can help................................what did you think the loses would be ?

Scoobies always reckon to lose a third.................... and plenty of those have had a lot of roller time.........................

Not sure why I’d need either insurance or local authority planning to hold a moderate amount of nitrous oxide. I’m not talking articulated tanker, lol

Check the regulations about storing gases and liquids (and local bylaws).................... the word bulk is defined in those by quantity and some are very low indeed................

EGT's are controlled on tuned diesel by monitoring, but more importantly that are very much part of the engine map setup .............. NOS will produce large EGT spikes ...i.e lot of power over a very, very, short time period........... I don't know how the engine will react to these spikes and I dont know if a standart thermocouple will capture them to the gauge...........

Are you convinced that the LR drive train will handle the extra torque ? what gearbox are you going to use ? what are the plans for the axles ?

Julian (lara) uses a specially built auto box and TC .......... everything else has broken quickly ........... he also uses ashcroft component modified axles........ and that is only 285 ponies but a lot of torque...............

Ian

[dollythelw]

Nope never claimed to know a lot or anything about nitrous, just that its proven. At least haven't meant to claim anything but that.....

Help is needed please

Could you add a little light to these crown temperature effects please.

let off a CO2 fire extingusher on your hand and you'll feel the effects

I would suggest doing a little more research before you take the plunge - wizzards of Nos are ok but not the font of all knowledge you might want to research "NOS" (try looking for Nitrous Oxide Systems - true daddies of laughing gas) and spend some time looking at tractor pulls. Personally I'd suggest a cummins 5.9 as being a cheaper option...

having said that dropping a shot on a diesel is a pretty straightforward proposal, technically its easier and safer than dropping it on a petrol motor, an easy way to get round the whole fuel enrichment and EGT issue would be to run a twin tank setup and drop propane in with the blue. Its the most folorn hope of a project Ive seen which makes it applaudable and truly worth doing

you're not going to find a transmission with a green oval on it thats not going to auto-dismantle the first time you hit it though