Orange Posted May 13, 2008 Author Share Posted May 13, 2008 I'm still struggling!! Having had the head off and seeing no apparent 'blow' in on the head gasket, I'm loathed to put the engine back together and try it without getting to the bottom of the problem! The breathers are all clear... An oil change is imminent and I'll use a good quality oil, but I'm a little lost with the whole cam bearing investigation procedure. Dan - you said there is a square inspection cover on the back of the engine.... my guess would be that it is at the end of the cam shaft, but there is nothing obvious in this location. The engine is covered in cr#p, though, so I could be missing it... Before I get over enthusiastic and rip the engine out to find it, has anyone got any pictures of the back of a 200tdi engine so that I can see what I am trying to find? There must be someone with a 200tdi on a stand...........(cough) Mark (cough)....... TIA Adrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 The only places at the back of the engine where oil might get out is the camshaft end cap (by the fuel filter in this pic), The plug immediately above it, the rocker gasket, fuel lift pump, or head gasket. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Adrian, I will have a look on the spare engine tonight, and see if I can find the plate that Dan has mentioned... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bertha Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Dan - you said there is a square inspection cover on the back of the engine.... my guess would be that it is at the end of the cam shaft, but there is nothing obvious in this location. The engine is covered in cr#p, though, so I could be missing it... I've doctored Mr Hensons pic slightly... The red arrow shows the core plug at the end of the cam (you don't want to disturb this!). The yellow arrow points vaguely in the direction of the inspection plate which is between where the vacuum pump sits and the back of the block. I tried looking at MicroCAT, but it only shows pics of the other side of the block! D'oh! So I've included a pic of the cover plate... at least I think its the right one!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 I think you may be chasing a red herring …………..a slipped cam bearing only causes low oil pressure (which is more noticeable at idle….. the oil light comes on)………………………… the only thing that causes oil to be forced (blown) from the rocker cap is excess crankcase pressure…………… Crankcase pressure has nothing to do with oil pressure………………. excess crankcase pressure can be caused by blocked breathers, piston ‘blow by’ due to worn rings, or a head gasket failure that allows combustion pressure to be forced into the crankcase (block)……….. also it is not unknown for this to be caused by something as simple as a faulty oil filler cap (especially those with built in breathers (a la ford) Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 The second picture posted by V8Bertha is the breather baffle - there's a plate in the inside of it reduce the amount of oil going up the pipe that connects to it. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bertha Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 I think you may be chasing a red herring …………..a slipped cam bearing only causes low oil pressure (which is more noticeable at idle….. the oil light comes on)………………………… True... but for the sake of 6 bolts it rules out another possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted May 13, 2008 Author Share Posted May 13, 2008 Cheers for the pointers... Tonight I shall be mostly using my feeler guages to ....................... feel things, , obviously!! Going to check that the rings are all making good contact with the bores and also check that the bores are cylindrical, rather than ovaldrical (not sure wht the term for a 3D oval is! !) to make sure nothing is getting through that way. Then it looks like I'll be putting it back together, giving the system a good flush out and filling it all back up again. Then we'll see if the contents of the engine end up all over the rear window again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 if your engine has the cylindrical cyclonic breather on the right hand side of the engine, take it off & clean it then refit, make sure it's hoses are clear too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzaz Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 for a better look at the cam bearings you can take off fuel pump cover,breather cover or vacuum pump, probably you'll see them as well if you take the tappets off, but I'd guess that if you grab the camshaft by its gear and move it up and down and inside out you'll get a good indication of bearing condition ( hope wont get misunderstood ) ...to check for cilindricity you'll need an internal micrometer I think.. I'd check the bores for the crosshatch pattern, if the marks are still clearly visible, then the bore shouldnt be much oval... check ring condition if possible, I found a broken one on mine, may have on effect on crankcase pressure... my 2euro cent worth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Eurrgh - what a revolting colour! Much better - Some people have no taste! Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WALFY Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Gold is a lot better than sick!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzaz Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Well i tried to keep it slightly similar to what it looked like... so off to the ironmonger for a can of golden hammerite lack of creativity? could be... yours is too yellowish for my tastes... looks like a banana shake, makes me slightly sick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 That's not sick - it's lemon yellow - you can be soooo common sometimes Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzaz Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Yup! Thats banana! but I have to say its nice piece of art... so whats next, lime head? cherry top cover? getting it to a nice macedonia there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted May 21, 2008 Author Share Posted May 21, 2008 OK...............it's not the head gasket!!! The search continues..... I'll be taking the covers off the side of the engine to look at the Cam shaft next... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted June 4, 2008 Author Share Posted June 4, 2008 Right then.. I still haven't got to the bottom of this annoying little problem. So far I have : Replaced the head gasket - no change and no obvious failure of the gasket. Whilst the head was off I checked that there were no gaps between the top piston rings and the cylinder - there were none. Checked all of the breathers that I can find - none blocked. Drained the oil, replaced the filter and refilled - no change. Checked all of the breathers that I can find - none blocked. Banged my head against the wall cos it's really annoying me now!!! Can anyone shed any more light? I'm starting to think that I'd be better off ringing Turner Engineering and ordering a reconditioned engine, but the wallet can't really take it at the moment.... No rush, , I've got until the 5th July before I'm booked on the J33p Club event in 7 Sisters - good job it's only round the corner... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 did you remove the camshaft & examine the bearings for movement ? if not you'll have to remove the head again to extract the cam followers & pushrods & complete timing case to extract the camshaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted June 4, 2008 Author Share Posted June 4, 2008 To be honest, Ralph, I didn't. To be even more honest, I was hoping that all of the stuff I've done would cure it, but hindsight is a wonderful thing!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK CAB Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 After all the work done so far, is it still suffering from excess crankcase pressure or the oil pressure light flickering? If you want another pair of eyes to look over it, i am not far away? Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted June 4, 2008 Author Share Posted June 4, 2008 Rod, It's still suffering from excess pressure. I've got vapours coming out of both the filler cap and the dipstick tube. A fresh pair of eyes and ideas would be very helpful... I'll drop you a PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milemarker Type S Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Hi Orange, My 200Tdi defender engine is suffering from exactly the same symptoms- open the filler cap and it chuffs like a train. Oil coming out through the cap when running and spitting out of the dipstick tube when the dipstick is out... I have replaced the head gasket and had the head skimmed while it was off- Couldn't see any obvious faults with the old gasket and to be fair the head was still within tolerance of not needing to be skimmed... but as it was all in bits I did it anyway. All the breathers are clear and the bores looked to be in good condition as well... still the same symptoms as before which is somewhat annoying... For what its worth my oil pressure light also comes on/ flickers when running at silly angles at tickover and also when it is very hot at tickover- goes out as soon as the revs are picked up even slightly. My engine is a recon unit that has probably done about 100K. Anyone any other suggestions as to how the crank case is pressurising?- the oil light may well be the cam shaft bearing but as has been said this would not cause the crank case to be pressurised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 If a camshaft bearing had moved it would have blocked off the oil supply to the bearing I would have thought, so it wouldn't encourage a leak anywhere that I can think of - the oil would go into the sump. I suppose there's a slight chance that oil pressure would force the blanking plug off on the back of the block, but you've checked that haven't you? Crankcase pressure will be compression getting into the sump somehow - usually head gasket, pistons/rings, cracked head, cracked block, head gasket on wrong, blocked breather system. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gruntus Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Crankcase pressure will be compression getting into the sump somehow - usually head gasket, pistons/rings, cracked head, cracked block, head gasket on wrong, blocked breather system.Les. Given what you have tried already i would have gone with exactly what Les has said. Unfortunately checking for a broken ring will be no easy feat as getting to the bottom end to pull the pistons out will need to be an engine out job surely? (Ladder frame can't be removed without the engine first being split from the bell housing?). Cheers Grant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted June 5, 2008 Author Share Posted June 5, 2008 How much would I have to change to get a Disco engine in?? Apart from the inlet/exhaust manifolds and the ancillaries, is it just the timing case on the front?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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