Fitters* and our Landies

[FridgeFreezer]

Amen to buying tools. After a difference of opinion about the quality of a repair with a local 4x4 "specialist" the thought occurred to me that, out of a £300 bill, the actual parts themselves were only £50 and £250 would've bought me a whole heap of lovely tools. Since then, unless I'm up against time or facilities, I do everything myself and won't hesitate to buy a tool, even if it costs a fair whack, to get a job done. Even if you have to buy a special tool for £50 or £100 you can bet it'll come out cheaper than paying someone to do the work, and in future you'll have the tool already.

The same applies to some parts - during my build I was looking at £250 for a pair of rear CSW wings. I bought a decent battery sabre saw for £100 and that allowed me to cut the wings off of the remains of a LWB tub for nothing, which I then cut down to become CSW shape. Although the saw was rather an extravagant purchase for a single use, overall I saved £150 over phoning paddocks.

On the flip side, I have a trusted local mechanic and a reasonably trustworthy MOT station, when it came time to swap engines in the Freelander the local mechanic was so reasonable in his quote it wasn't worth my while getting the spanners out, borrowing an engine crane and mucking about in the rain in the back garden.

[Philip Tonkin]

At one time part of your apprenticeship was making your own tools.

A good apprenticeship will still expect you to make your own tools. You never use them, but making your own cold chisels from blocks of metal with nothing more than a file teaches more than just patience. It teaches you a lot about metallurgy during the heat treatment/tempering process. Then the plub line turned on a lathe, which teaches not only simple turning techniques but also internal and external treading and also a little about pitch. A toolbox made from folded metal sheet, the vice, filed, turned, knurled and then thrown in the bin because it is a couple of thou out (yes we still teach apprentices in old money to)

A lot of problems with terminology have come about since the over use of the term Engineer in peoples job title. A fitter is a skilled industrial engineer, he is often assisted by a fitters mate, a skilled employee who hasn't necessarily served their time. An Engineer is someone with and Engineering degree and the professional experience to understand and lead a piece of work.

Too many people will give someone with 2 weeks training the title Technician. Far too many Electrical engineers graduate without being able to wire a plug.

Kwik Fit employ Tyre fitters and Exhaust fitters but not mechanical fitters.

We live in a time where intelligent people must go to University or spend their lives in poverty, an apprenticeship is for the less so, and the NVQ is king and Indentured means nothing to anyone.

It's sad but I know of Directors being marched out of schools for offering Apprenticeships as they expect better from their children.

And that's just in the garage, don't get me started on Car Salesmen that don't know what they sell...

[LandyManLuke]

Philip, well said!!

Fridge is bang on with the philosophy of buying tools, rather than paying labour rates, in my opinion. I follow the same doctrine and it nearly always saves me money, or leaves me with a shiny tool to keep - both of which are a plus to me. The only thing that counts against you is time - then looking at other options is sometimes a must.

[tonycougar]

I would say in my experience that you are more likely to be over-charged by a garage that by just about anyone else. You drop your motor off and three days later you pick it up. Say for instance the bill is £300 - you may think that 3-days work, plus parts is reasonable, but in fact most seemingly highly technical jobs can be done is quite a short space of time and your motor is in the car park for the majority of those three days. People target dealers not because they are dealers, but because the labour charges are so much higher, so you end-up paying more for what is in fact the same thing.

In one day you can -

Change the engine.

Change the gearbox/transfer box/clutch

Replace pistons/rings/cylinder head/just about anything to do with the engine that doesn't require removal of it.

Wheel bearings, Uj's, diffs, brake pads/shoes, complete hub rebuild (inc swivel ball) - 1/2 day or less

Timing belts (any model) 4-hours max.

Replacing a crossmember can usually be done in a day or so, and this sort of thing is major work to most people.

The only thing that hangs up a job is getting the parts (which should be done in advance)

Fabrication can sometimes be complex, but in reality - how often do you get a garage to fabricate something?

Waiting on engineers to skim a head/crack test it/re-grind a crank/re-bore a block, can lengthen a job, but this should be explained at the time, and a delay is therefore anticipated.

The best investment is a set of tools - they don't have to be Snap-On or anything scarily expensive - Halfords Pro are excellent (is have two sets of them), and are guaranteed for life.

Accessing the information on how to do a particular job is they key to saving yourself a lot of money, and this is where websites like this come into their own - 'do this as shown ' ' do that and watch you don't bang your head on that' are almost priceless becuase you can confidently do the job yourself and also have your motor back on the road a damn-sight quicker. Most expensive specialist tools can be avoided by using a drill bit/bent nail/ funny-shaped bit of metal, so in doing it yourself, you not only save money, but have the immense pride of turning the key and everything still works/the rattle is gone/etc.

Of course - you have to trust a total stranger in that the information he/she is supplying is correct

Les.

Well said Les.

I have used loads of your how to's. The step by step pictures make the jobs seem much more approachable, than just using the manual. I like to use a combination of the 2. Every job I have done, I have always ended up very pleased with myself for doing a job that before I would have deemed too difficult for a non mechanic like me, but you give me the confidence to have a go, and usually once I get started I end up finishing it. Plus I know having done the job myself that it is done right and no corners were taken (well maybe a few but not safety related). It always takes me longer to do it than it would a mechanic but I like to think I take my time and make sure it is right. I am getting so confident that now I would rather have a go at a job myself rather than take it to a garage for a rush job. Unless I don't have the tools or something.

Thanks once again

Tony

[Cat_J]

A good apprenticeship will still expect you to make your own tools. You never use them, but making your own cold chisels from blocks of metal with nothing more than a file teaches more than just patience. It teaches you a lot about metallurgy during the heat treatment/tempering process. Then the plub line turned on a lathe, which teaches not only simple turning techniques but also internal and external treading and also a little about pitch. A toolbox made from folded metal sheet, the vice, filed, turned, knurled and then thrown in the bin because it is a couple of thou out (yes we still teach apprentices in old money to)

A lot of problems with terminology have come about since the over use of the term Engineer in peoples job title. A fitter is a skilled industrial engineer, he is often assisted by a fitters mate, a skilled employee who hasn't necessarily served their time. An Engineer is someone with and Engineering degree and the professional experience to understand and lead a piece of work.

Too many people will give someone with 2 weeks training the title Technician. Far too many Electrical engineers graduate without being able to wire a plug.

Kwik Fit employ Tyre fitters and Exhaust fitters but not mechanical fitters.

We live in a time where intelligent people must go to University or spend their lives in poverty, an apprenticeship is for the less so, and the NVQ is king and Indentured means nothing to anyone.

It's sad but I know of Directors being marched out of schools for offering Apprenticeships as they expect better from their children.

And that's just in the garage, don't get me started on Car Salesmen that don't know what they sell...

Thats true but I'm 18 and looking to go on a do an Apprentiseship even though I'm doing my A-Levels and gots mostly As and Bs at GCSE. I'm doing A-Leves in Physics, Maths, and Biology. They keep telling me to go to uni and do a degree but it just doesn't interest me as I'd rather be doing something praticle (Land Rovers!). So for some its more of a lifestyle choice than restricted by ability but its also good for those who aren't going to get the grades. Its annoying when people suggest that Apprentiseships are just for those of lower ability as lots now offer the lower grade education but then offer upto degree level too if they thnik you are worth the investment.

[mmgemini]

Thats true but I'm 18 and looking to go on a do an Apprentiseship even though I'm doing my A-Levels and gots mostly As and Bs at GCSE. I'm doing A-Leves in Physics, Maths, and Biology. They keep telling me to go to uni and do a degree but it just doesn't interest me as I'd rather be doing something praticle (Land Rovers!). So for some its more of a lifestyle choice than restricted by ability but its also good for those who aren't going to get the grades. Its annoying when people suggest that Apprentiseships are just for those of lower ability as lots now offer the lower grade education but then offer upto degree level too if they thnik you are worth the investment.

Do what YOU want to do.

My youngest girl didn't want to go to 6th form

Then at the last minute she did. She'd been promised only two A leves because she already had A level photography taken early. The college pushed and pushed for her to go to university. Even going as far as ringing her mother up at school.

"You're a teacher, make her go to university". My wife said that the girl could make her own mind up.

She did.

Her friends went to university. Two fell out of the system more or less staright away. Some changed courses. Some waited a year before packing in. out of her ten or so friends that went to university only two or three finished the course.

At 21 my girl had a managers job in a shop.

When she got that job she said to me

"Dad, if I'd gone to university I'd still not hold a position like this now."

There are those who can work on paper.

There are those who can work with their hands.

Some are very lucky and can do both.

Those that can DO

Those that can't teach

Those that cant teach administrate.

Those who cant administrate become MP's.

Oh dear...

The government works on the one size knickers fits all. No they do not. We are all different.

mike

[tonycougar]

Those that can DO

Those that can't teach

Those that cant teach administrate.

Those who cant administrate become MP's.

I like that Mike.

[DrRob]

Amen to buying tools. After a difference of opinion about the quality of a repair with a local 4x4 "specialist" the thought occurred to me that, out of a £300 bill, the actual parts themselves were only £50 and £250 would've bought me a whole heap of lovely tools. Since then, unless I'm up against time or facilities, I do everything myself and won't hesitate to buy a tool, even if it costs a fair whack, to get a job done. Even if you have to buy a special tool for £50 or £100 you can bet it'll come out cheaper than paying someone to do the work, and in future you'll have the tool already.

The same applies to some parts - during my build I was looking at £250 for a pair of rear CSW wings. I bought a decent battery sabre saw for £100 and that allowed me to cut the wings off of the remains of a LWB tub for nothing, which I then cut down to become CSW shape. Although the saw was rather an extravagant purchase for a single use, overall I saved £150 over phoning paddocks.

On the flip side, I have a trusted local mechanic and a reasonably trustworthy MOT station, when it came time to swap engines in the Freelander the local mechanic was so reasonable in his quote it wasn't worth my while getting the spanners out, borrowing an engine crane and mucking about in the rain in the back garden.

Hi, I'm interested in who your local mechanic is. Is there any chance I could get his details? PM me perhaps. There are lots of 4x4 specialists around south Hampshire but hear all sorts of different stories about them all....