Fitters* and our Landies

[dantd5]

I have seen many-a-fitters working on cars and it looks almost like they simply show no feelings to my car... I then owed Ford Fiestas and Vw Sharons...( How I loathe those days)

Oil here and there without cleaning...

Whacking the drop arm after breaking a couple of pitbull pullers... (Yeah I overheard him saying... " This Steering box will get the beating of its life) All that agression on my Steering Box... Those were the days.. I do them nowadays myself....

Simply leaving stains on the seat without winking

Brake fluid stinking heavily in the footwells after I was led to believe they were the only ones who can fix the Master Clutch Cylinder...

I was even told to use my tyres for another season and that it was unneccesary to change them... What?.. When the landy's shaking movement

gave me a nauseating feeling anytime I had seafood (and took little tours to show off ma landy)

The dream became true when I got my "Black Shark". A friend once asked me... "Do you have any records of visiting the garage on "that" car? "That" Car.... ? It is a Landy you are talking about, fella...!!!.. Watch your language before I get my troops on you. Disrespect once again.

I guess None .. And I mean None of us will ever go the fitters* again..

*An ancient word for the garage mechanics,,,

Anyone ever had any experience with them?

[python]

ill never take any of my cars to those monkeys . never have, i always do it myself.

[MINESAPINT]

Unfortunately car servicing is a mystery to me. I can do most other things but have never had the desire to get under the bonnet. However it is a skill I wish I had as I have had some bad experiences. My current Landy is Td5 and I had it serviced at a dealership in Stockton (UK). They did some gearbox work & failed to retighten the bolts holding the crossmember on the chassis. They also ruined the locking wheel nuts on my alloys, broke my windscreen and left the vehicle with diff lock engaged for me to pick up.

I decided to have my vehicle serviced at a local garage and after the service the vehicle developed an oil leak. It was not until the next service at ANOTHER garage it was realised that the oil filter had not being tightened. Additionally it failed its MOT due to a missing retaining pin that should have been holding the rear brake pads in place. Either was not fitted or was not fitted correctly.

This is only a list of stuff I am aware of.

Recently at a dealership at Pickering my wife who was waiting in the vehicle while I was inside looking at new Defenders witnessed the dealership staff playing football in the car park in and among the customers & dealers own vehicles.

MINESAPINT

[mmgemini]

So I'm a monkey am I

mike

[python]

So I'm a monkey am I

mike

im a mechaninc too, just wouldn't leave mine in the hands of a garage, i know what goes on in these places. some that i have been in the monkeys at the zoo are better behaved.

[David Sparkes]

As mmgemini's point, not all mechanics are the same.

Even though they are based of personal experience, if dantd5 had posted his original comments on the Car Mechanics Magazine forum he would have been slaughtered by the many mechanics who post on there.

Conversely, some home mechanics servicing would have got critical comment, if you had seen it being done on 'your' car while in a garage. EG, freeing off sticking brakes by giving the calipers several thumps with a hammer.

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=26071&hl=

By all means complain about specific instances, but don't extend that to everyone who gets paid to pull on a set of overalls every day.

Cheers

[Happyoldgit]

<snip>

By all means complain about specific instances, but don't extend that to everyone who gets paid to pull on a set of overalls every day.

Cheers

Exactly - using too broad a brush is aways a dangerous thing.

As LR4x4 is a tech forum we really should be concentrating on specific issues rather than general chit chat.

[dantd5]

As mmgemini's point, not all mechanics are the same.

Even though they are based of personal experience, if dantd5 had posted his original comments on the Car Mechanics Magazine forum he would have been slaughtered by the many mechanics who post on there.

Conversely, some home mechanics servicing would have got critical comment, if you had seen it being done on 'your' car while in a garage. EG, freeing off sticking brakes by giving the calipers several thumps with a hammer.

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=26071&hl=

By all means complain about specific instances, but don't extend that to everyone who gets paid to pull on a set of overalls every day.

Cheers

I guess you are right there, Dav ..I should actually should not have extended it to the whole lot of mechanics...And surely I know many of the "Experts" here are simply superb.. Yeah there are good ones out there too!! I was just wondering if one bad NUT can really destroy the whole lot?

Chiers.....

[Happyoldgit]

<snip>

I was just wondering if one bad NUT can really destroy the whole lot?

Chiers.....

There are good and bad in all walks of life, it's up to you to find the good ones.

[110WestCape]

Paying good moolah for bad experiences ....... same in this part of the world. I have great respect for people with technical skills and thankful to those that share their knowledge so unselfishly. A great forum.

Wikus

[MINESAPINT]

MOG is absolutely right. It is up to us to find the good mechanics in our area, thing is how many of us are still looking. You would hope if you stick to a main Land Rover dealer you would be OK but as my experiences show this is not the case. If anyone can recommend a garage in the Whitby/Guisborough/Marske/Redcar/Middlesborough area I would be glad to hear about it.

MINESAPINT

[Mo Murphy]

For the jobs that I can't do I'll only use one mechanic now. He lives 150 miles away and doesn't have a workshop but he does it properly. He's highly recommended by all that have used him and he shares his knowledge with all for free.

Cheers Uncle Les

Mo

[JimAttrill]

You should come to us - we're even further away

ps. I am not a mechanic, I trained as an engine fitter in the days when the RAF used the word 'mechanic' to describe a semi-skilled person who was allowed to top up the oil and fuel, but not much else except under supervision. To be a fitter you had to have done an apprenticeship or passed the trade test for that grade.

[dantd5]

I guess on that note, I will thank all for the Praises,, we have rained on our super Mechanics and fitters. WE respect you all. And remember there are many good "NUTS" and they make our daily lives worth living. And actually I feel like a fitter.. And I am one.... I snake all day under my car... Getting pooooh(not winnie) in my face sometimes even swallowing Transmission oil (I feel actually numb on one of my left fingers due to constant holes in my latex )

The "Brush" I used painted places which needed no colours and I promise not to raise CHIT CHAT topics in the good spirit of the LR 4x4 Forum...(Feel like I am placing a pledge now ) Good fellows,,, Let us all live in the good spirit and love one another.. I hereby declare the topic closed.

[Escape]

I do as much of the work myself, but when I do take my car to a garage, I always stay with it, both to help out (and cut the bill) and to learn. I had this habit even before owning a Landie.

[FridgeFreezer]

This is why we join LR clubs and forums - to get word of mouth from people with a bit of knowledge as to where there's a reliable mechanic. You might even find there's club / forum members near you who are mechanics and can do work for you.

Not wishing to use the big brush, but I wouldn't take a car to a main dealer any more than I'd take it to any other random mechanic, they can be just as good or bad as each other.

[BigSi110]

I have fairly exacting standards for work done to my cars.

My local Merc specialist, although expensive, has never let me down and I won't go anywhere else for repairs and servicing on our E-Class.

However, finding a truly great specialist for my 110 is a problem. In 2 years, I haven't yet received that all-important comfort factor from the 2 specialists I've used, so I won't be returning to either of them.

I know someone who I trust implicitly and who offered his services at very short notice and without hesitation to replace the cylinder head on my 110, but it's not his day-job and I feel that requesting regular servicing from him is too much.

So, that leaves me with a dilemma, but a few new options to explore.

[Les Henson]

I would say in my experience that you are more likely to be over-charged by a garage that by just about anyone else. You drop your motor off and three days later you pick it up. Say for instance the bill is £300 - you may think that 3-days work, plus parts is reasonable, but in fact most seemingly highly technical jobs can be done is quite a short space of time and your motor is in the car park for the majority of those three days. People target dealers not because they are dealers, but because the labour charges are so much higher, so you end-up paying more for what is in fact the same thing.

In one day you can -

Change the engine.

Change the gearbox/transfer box/clutch

Replace pistons/rings/cylinder head/just about anything to do with the engine that doesn't require removal of it.

Wheel bearings, Uj's, diffs, brake pads/shoes, complete hub rebuild (inc swivel ball) - 1/2 day or less

Timing belts (any model) 4-hours max.

Replacing a crossmember can usually be done in a day or so, and this sort of thing is major work to most people.

The only thing that hangs up a job is getting the parts (which should be done in advance)

Fabrication can sometimes be complex, but in reality - how often do you get a garage to fabricate something?

Waiting on engineers to skim a head/crack test it/re-grind a crank/re-bore a block, can lengthen a job, but this should be explained at the time, and a delay is therefore anticipated.

The best investment is a set of tools - they don't have to be Snap-On or anything scarily expensive - Halfords Pro are excellent (is have two sets of them), and are guaranteed for life.

Accessing the information on how to do a particular job is they key to saving yourself a lot of money, and this is where websites like this come into their own - 'do this as shown ' ' do that and watch you don't bang your head on that' are almost priceless becuase you can confidently do the job yourself and also have your motor back on the road a damn-sight quicker. Most expensive specialist tools can be avoided by using a drill bit/bent nail/ funny-shaped bit of metal, so in doing it yourself, you not only save money, but have the immense pride of turning the key and everything still works/the rattle is gone/etc.

Of course - you have to trust a total stranger in that the information he/she is supplying is correct

Les.

[mmgemini]

Exactly Les.

That is why this site is the best technical Land Rover site I use.

I was taken to task by a web dedesigner/site admin because in his words " You shew people haw to be a bush mechanic, instead of buying expensive tools"

Well I do use expensive tools but I will try to help people save money.

How's that for two pence wrth..

mike

[Gromit]

Of course - you have to trust a total stranger in that the information he/she is supplying is correct

Works for me Les

[Philip Tonkin]

I am a time served mechanical fitter. You couldn't ask a mechanic to do half the things I can do but likewise I would rather get a mechanic do other things on my Landy.

What you seem to have been missing is a decent fitter. One that takes pride in their work. One thing I have learned is never do anything for an enthusiast unless you are an expert, especially if that enthusiast is capable of doing the work themselves (i.e. someone who only lacks the time or facility but not the skill). No matter how good a job you do there will be something that could have been done better with time. Unfortunately other peoples time costs money that people don't want to pay.

[discobasher]

Then there is the other sort of customer who will ask you to change one side but not the other !!

I am also time served but ended up in the office due to a spinal injury but still manage to do my own repairs/servicing.

I also do a bit for mates and am always willing to help anybody out but there are limits.

If you want your land rover to last you have got to be prepared to spend a few quid on its upkeep.

My own 90 celebrates its 18th birthday in june and its not got there by scrimping on repairs.

My dad taught me at an early age to do a proper job or get somebody else to do it.

Unfortunately its a cruel world and not everybody you trust to do the job your paying for does it right.

BUT, there are many good garages out there and you just have to run the guantlet to find them.

There is also TRADING STANDARDS to go to if you are not happy with your repairs.

[pat_pending]

Well, I've always defined a fitter as just that, someone who fits things, tyres, exhausts brakes etc.

A mechanic is someone who can repair/overhaul/make or modify.

Please don't tar all garages or mechanics with the same brush. There maybe some really bad ones out there, but there are a lot of really good ones.

I don't think you are any more likely to be ripped off by a garage than you are by any other tradesman, it's just that people will always visit garages more often than they will use plumbers, builders or decorators, so statistically you are bound to have more bad experiences.

As for dealer labour rates, as the profit margin on a new cars is really quite small, how do you think they pay for...

Heating, lighting,reception staff, admin, accounts, parts staff, car valeters, drivers, telephonists, cleaners, then there's insurance, business rates, rent, training, special tools, courtesy cars, parts in stock, cars in stock, building and equipment maintenance and host of other costs?

If you think the motor trade is a licence to print money your very wrong.

Mechanics are not that well paid and have to buy all their own hand tools, mine are worth over £30,000 at last valuation.

Modern cars are changing all the time and we have to buy new tools and keep up to date with all the technology.

Manufacturers are often very poor with backup and technical infomation, they don't pay us the same labour rate for warranty as we charge customers for retail work(a lot less) and are very strict in what they will and will not pay us for. We can waste days searching for obscure intermittent faults without a hope of ever getting the money back. Then there is all the time we waste on customers vehicles with non existent faults because they don't understand how things work or can't be bothered to read their handbook.

Some of us try very hard to look after our customers in what can be a very demanding and stressful job.

Sorry to go on but I get fed up of people knocking the trade because of a few bad experiences.

Thanks, Pat. Time served, 30 years experience, workshop foreman, MOT tester... and all round good guy.

[alfredenewman]

theres a lot of difference in a mechanic and a fitter quick fit use fitters. i rest my case

[JimAttrill]

The original meaning of a fitter was not somebody who fits things as anyone can do that, but someone who could make parts fit. At one time part of your apprenticeship was making your own tools. My father was a Fitter IIE and later Fitter I in the RAF and told me stories about how they would regrind RR Eagle crankshafts using:

A big square block of lead

A large drill bit

Two big nuts and bolts

Two long pieces of wood

Grinding paste

and a micrometer

Anyone guess how they did it?