GBMUD Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 All I have managed to do is twist the KAM shafts after two years I think that was money well spent. Jules hit my problem with KAMs on the head. They work by means of an extended spline on one (the long side?) half shaft. There is a dog(?) which slides up and down the spline and engages/disengages the diff when operated. If the shaft and therefor the spline gets twisted then the locker gets jammed - either engaged or disengaged. I know people who this has happened to, not often, but it has happened. Thinking about the relative numbers of ARBs to KAMs the number of KAM vs. ARB problems speaks for itself to me. For the record, I had a Detroit in the rear of my 90, replaced it with an ARB and have not looked back since. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bush65 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 G'day John,I'd be interested into know more about this...on the design differences side...just for tech knowledge...anything you may want to add/explain? Also,how many actuator failures are you aware of? (touch wood) The actuator seals are easily damaged during assembly - I suspect this as the main reason for them failing. A common fault is diff oil getting into the airline and blowing out of the exhaust port (solenoid valve) when the diff is unlocked. If the diff breathers aren't good enough this is bound to happen. The switches for the solenoid valves are rubbish. The best solution, is to bin the solenoid valves and switches and replace them with a manual operated pneumatic valve like Maxi-drive use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isuzurover Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Jules hit my problem with KAMs on the head. They work by means of an extended spline on one (the long side?) half shaft. There is a dog(?) which slides up and down the spline and engages/disengages the diff when operated. If the shaft and therefor the spline gets twisted then the locker gets jammed - either engaged or disengaged. I know people who this has happened to, not often, but it has happened. Thinking about the relative numbers of ARBs to KAMs the number of KAM vs. ARB problems speaks for itself to me.For the record, I had a Detroit in the rear of my 90, replaced it with an ARB and have not looked back since. Chris After looking at pictures of the KAM diff lock, I would never buy one, regardless of the strength/quality of the halfshafts. It is overly complex and requires too many modifications to fit it. I have seen claims that the KAM locker is as used by Santana, but I don't see how this can be true, since the Santana PS10 has a hypoid rear diff that is much larger than a rover diff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 1)The actuator seals are easily damaged during assembly 2)The switches for the solenoid valves are rubbish(...) replace them with a manual operated pneumatic valve like Maxi-drive use. 1)oil escapes,uh,right...but it's more about a correct fitting than the diff itself... 2)done since the beginning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 M change the o rings then the job is very easy and worthwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Jules I couldn't decipher your post but:Maxi Drive are competivley priced but we have to order via companies that add a large mark up. making them expensive over hear. Can't Ali start posting you some bits as presents? You are right there Ali got his Maxi drive shafts from Aus a few years ago at about $250 each at the time in the UK they were £400 inc vat each. That is some kin mark up hense why I feel the Maxi drive stuff is a rip off. Who want to buy from the french anyway. $2.24 to the £ one half shaft from Maxi drive is $896 I think that rests my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 (edited) I paid £880 for: x4 shafts x4 drive members x2 bronze bushes required to fit AEU2522s from the French chap via WH in Bradford Edited January 4, 2006 by white90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 (edited) one half shaft from Maxi drive is $896 I think that rests my case. Uh?!? Jules,where? I was given a 697USD quote when I asked for 2 X rear shafts! P&p not included. I took the Moser way after,but that's another story... Tony, I have no oil leaks at all... ...although the guys who fitted my lockers did half a mess with the ferrules (I had to explain some things) they work fine. I'm ready to kick some butts anytime... Edited January 4, 2006 by Michele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Ok may be I'm wrong but I refused to pay the prices quoted to me and ended up bying the two ARB's and rear preped disc axle with the Kam shafts due to at the time I could by a ARB locker and the shafts for the price of two maxi drive shafts quoted to me and Ali. It was a good few years ago I will abmit. He may have come down in price over the last three years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Maybe I got mine when Ali was in Aus getting wed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Maybe I got mine when Ali was in Aus getting wed Similar time then Maybe my face did not fit at the time at the show's that year. Goes to show that greedy stockest can tarnish a product in my mind for three years till you told me how much they were still a lot of money. This is why soon as anyone talks about maxi drive I read with a air of caution still much, much cheaper in Aus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isuzurover Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Similar time then Maybe my face did not fit at the time at the show's that year. Goes to show that greedy stockest can tarnish a product in my mind for three years till you told me how much they were still a lot of money. This is why soon as anyone talks about maxi drive I read with a air of caution still much, much cheaper in Aus If the european distributors are too greedy then you can always buy direct (e.g. through a friend in OZ) and cut out the middle man. When I am back there I am happy to help anyone out (live 40km from Mal's workshop). The prices out Mal's door don't change, except if you are buying a lot of stuff and paying cash you may get a discount. The prices in OZ last I checked (they may have changed): Rover locker (rear or front (inner halfshafts but no CVs) - $2000AUD Salisbury Locker - $1400AUD Halfshafts - $700ish a pair Low range gears $2000ish (I think Ashcroft works out a bit cheaper for these anyway) Drive flanges - $250AUD a pair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 thanks for the offer, I think were Ali works he gets trade accounts with some of these guys out in Aus (Ali ,reads90, is my big brother) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I've had ARBs in both axles for about 2 and a half years and they've done me proud. Probably not as strong as Maxi Drive or Jack Mac but parts are easier to find and the price is good. On KAM I say nothing. Personbally I wouldn't use a toyota r&p conversion over here because they're not as common as in Aus. The alternative is to get the diffs pegged which ends up cheaper anyway. I use Maxi Drive shafts because they're strong but they cost a FORTUNE. If I were to do it again I'd pay less and get stronger ones made out of Margaring 300. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 (edited) of course you meant Maraging 300* *which costs an helluva money accordina to Julian...?!? Edited January 4, 2006 by Michele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 of course you meant Maraging 300* *which costs an helluva money accordina to Julian...?!? Yep, that's the one (can't spell for tofey ). I've been given a rough figure an its not rediculous (~£500 an axle). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Yep, that's the one (can't spell for tofey ). I've been given a rough figure an its not rediculous (~£500 an axle). Maybe Julian would start selling them and get richer and richer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nas90 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 NAS 90Sorry about the wording DID,NT realise i was going to get a picky fool trying to be funny!!!!!!!!! I was just testing the water regarding who used what and what for,i know excatly how they work mate transmissions is my bag,i only did the WRC with subaru as a Gearbox Tech for several years!!!!!!!! SiWhite Hobit I was going to go for the arb set up,i thought i might get it from ashcrofts. If you want information on diffs then write "diffs", if you want information of diff lockers then write "diff lockers". Fairly straightforward use of the English language. Fool I am not, guess I need to polish my 6th sense to understand your question! Give KAM a call as suggested in my post on diff lockers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJL Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 If you want information on diffs then write "diffs", if you want information of diff lockers then write "diff lockers". Fairly straightforward use of the English language. Fool I am not, guess I need to polish my 6th sense to understand your question!Give KAM a call as suggested in my post on diff lockers. Well put! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isuzurover Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Yep, that's the one (can't spell for tofey ). I've been given a rough figure an its not rediculous (~£500 an axle). Is that GBP500 per pair of halfshafts or per halfshaft? If it is per pair it is not too bad but still a waste of money IMO. Since just about any (good quality aftermarket) 24 spline halfshaft is stronger than a rover ring and pinion (even a pegged one), I can't see the logic in going to stronger and stronger materials, the strength of the overall setup is still limited by the ring and pinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernchris Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 (edited) If you want information on diffs then write "diffs", if you want information of diff lockers then write "diff lockers". Fairly straightforward use of the English language. Fool I am not, guess I need to polish my 6th sense to understand your question!Give KAM a call as suggested in my post on diff lockers. Nas90 dnt take offence i was just on the wind up fella. ARB is on its way,i know kam stuff is good,thats why i have stuff getting done by them at the mo for another projct. Chris Edited January 4, 2006 by northernchris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 If you want information on diffs then write "diffs", if you want information of diff lockers then write "diff lockers". Fairly straightforward use of the English language. Fool I am not, guess I need to polish my 6th sense to understand your question!Give KAM a call as suggested in my post on diff lockers. You seem very sensetive Dave. I think you need a holiday - I presume you did manage to get leave for the weekend? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 (edited) still a waste of money IMO. Since 8...)I can't see the logic in going to stronger and stronger materials, the strength of the overall setup is still limited by the ring and pinion "don't underestimate the power of BLING!" my coat please,and keep the door opened... Edited January 4, 2006 by Michele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Is that GBP500 per pair of halfshafts or per halfshaft? If it is per pair it is not too bad but still a waste of money IMO. Since just about any (good quality aftermarket) 24 spline halfshaft is stronger than a rover ring and pinion (even a pegged one), I can't see the logic in going to stronger and stronger materials, the strength of the overall setup is still limited by the ring and pinion. Possibly but I'm not sure what I'll break first. With the diffs pegged the 3 things I think I may break are the short front halfshaft, the propshaft or I'll shear the pinion on the diff. Is there any significant differance in the diameter of the pinion on a Toyota diff compared to a Rover one? The price for the shafts was for an axle set which suprised me as it was lower than I'd have expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isuzurover Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 (edited) Possibly but I'm not sure what I'll break first. With the diffs pegged the 3 things I think I may break are the short front halfshaft, the propshaft or I'll shear the pinion on the diff. Is there any significant differance in the diameter of the pinion on a Toyota diff compared to a Rover one? The price for the shafts was for an axle set which suprised me as it was lower than I'd have expected. Mike and Wayne Smith's comp rangie (winner of the OBC, malaysian rainforest challenge, etc) ran pegged rover diffs (with ARB lockers) for a while with Maxi-Drive (I think?) axles/halfshafts. They broke 2 pegged ring and pinions diffs but the halfshafts were fine (note they broke the gears, not the pinion shaft). They have since done the toyota centre conversion and have reportedly had no problems. Wayne Smith posted this in the rover section of outerlimits. NOTE - these were not Ashcroft pegged diffs. EDIT - have a look at the posts here by Smithy Jnr http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modules/...pic.php?t=63028 I don't know if the toyota pinion is a larger diameter than a rover pinion. It is not common to break one though. Edited January 5, 2006 by isuzurover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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