MarkL Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Hi, another newbie question! I just bought a 2003 Defender, which still has the factory-fitted General Grabber TR 235/85 16 tyres. On the tyre wall there is an M+S (for mud + snow I presume) .. is this for mud and snow on normal roads or is this for 'proper' mud and snow (i.e. off-road). So are these tyres all-terrain tyres like BFGoodrich ATs?? Ya see I fancy doing La Croisière Blanche in 2009, but they require you to have AT tyres (and snow chains) .. are Grabber TRs OK or do I need to splash out and get BFGs? Thanks Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godlykepower Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 M & S does indeed stand for Mud & Snow, but it is rather optimistic really, as they are essentially a road tyre with slightly better mud & snow characteristics than a true road tyre. They should not be confused with a bona fide All Terrain tyre. Due to the close tread pattern, they will fill up with mud very quickly, rendering them useless off road, especially in wet conditions. They will perform better on snow, irrespective of on or off road, as long as the snow is hard-packed enough. Apart from road use, where they will be quiet, they will be out of their depth on almost anything other than dry grass. In a million years, you could not compare these to BFG A/T's! BFG's are legendary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smo Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 The tyres supplied by Landrover (Grabber TR's) are carp, they are the worst tyre imaginable, rubbish off road, and rubbish on road. They are no way comparable to even the worst AT or MT tyres, they are much worse! BFG AT's are fantastic, and BFG MT's are even better - i had a set of 265/75 BFG MT's on my TD5 90, it got used for greenlanes and hard playing at the weekends, and my family/work vehicle in the week doing 20K+ on roads over a year. Never had a problem with muds, they didnt affect my economy or cause noise. If it was my money i'd buy BFG Mud Terrains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkL Posted July 13, 2008 Author Share Posted July 13, 2008 Thanks Guys BFG ATs I reckon it is then!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smo Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Noooo, Get Mud Terrains! Just as good on road, much better off road! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 The tyres supplied by Landrover (Grabber TR's) are carp, they are the worst tyre imaginable, rubbish off road, and rubbish on road. They are no way comparable to even the worst AT or MT tyres, they are much worse! BFG AT's are fantastic, and BFG MT's are even better - i had a set of 265/75 BFG MT's on my TD5 90, it got used for greenlanes and hard playing at the weekends, and my family/work vehicle in the week doing 20K+ on roads over a year. Never had a problem with muds, they didnt affect my economy or cause noise. If it was my money i'd buy BFG Mud Terrains. So I wouldn't nbe able to use Greneral Grabber TR's in sand on African roads ?? mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smo Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 You can use them on anything, but that doesn't mean they are any good. My personal experience of them having had them supplied on new vehicles is that they suck! Off road on grass (particularly when wet), mud or snow they have zero grip, on road they have zero grip - I'm not sure what African roads are like but I'd definitely consider BFG AT's or MT's (personal choice is MT's) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petergg Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 So I wouldn't nbe able to use Greneral Grabber TR's in sand on African roads ??mike I would Mike, as you want to sit on top of sand not dig through it, and they would be OK in snow with chains on but you can't be sure of having snow on he cros so I do it with MT's. Mark, When buying a tyre check out for Snow chain size as well, if you have to have them made to fit the tyre they can be very expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I found the Grabbers fine on sand... I'd look for something a lot chunkier for the Cros ....... mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 The tyres supplied by Landrover (Grabber TR's) are carp, they are the worst tyre imaginable, rubbish off road, and rubbish on road. They are no way comparable to even the worst AT or MT tyres, they are much worse! BFG AT's are fantastic, and BFG MT's are even better - i had a set of 265/75 BFG MT's on my TD5 90, it got used for greenlanes and hard playing at the weekends, and my family/work vehicle in the week doing 20K+ on roads over a year. Never had a problem with muds, they didnt affect my economy or cause noise. If it was my money i'd buy BFG Mud Terrains. SMO this happened last week in Argentina. They were blaming the tires http://www.rionegro.com.ar/diario/tools/ve...?id=20087v12s10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smo Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Yup, they are rubbish. I had my accident on crappy Grabbers - for some silly reason i had taken my BFG's off.....had they been on i would have stopped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I hate ignorance. Just because a tyre has M+S written on it doesn't mean it is good for mud or snow. If you come over here during the winter you will not see 1 4x4 with these 'awesome', 'legendary', 'brilliant' BFG tyres for use in snow. They are rubbish, the rubbercompound used is too hard to be of any use in snow. Just because you can drive forwards doesn't mean the tyres are good in snow, you also have to be able to steer and stop. If you want an AT tyre that is useable to an extent in snow then the General Grabber ATII works better than BFG's tyres. However if you want a tyre that works in snow like a tyre should then you need the Cooper Discoverer M+S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smo Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Not ignorance - its experience, the grabbers fitted as standard are the worst tyre ever made on any surface, and the BFG's are superb on most surfaces. There are always better more specific tyres for the job, but when you dont just travel on one surface type..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 There are always better more specific tyres for the job, but when you dont just travel on one surface type..... True but the original post was in reference to snow driving in the CB. BFG AT or MT are about as bad as you can get, apart from chinese Cheng Slime tyres. Like I said before the reason BFG's get good mileage is because they use a hard rubber compound, which is useless in snow or ice/ snow covered roads. The general isn't too bad in snow, I have tried it, but you still have to drive like miss daisy. You can make an MT better for snow, by having it siped (lots of small cuts, not tread removed) But it will still never be as good as a snow tyre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godlykepower Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I didn't mean that BFG A/T's were legendary in the snow, even if the original context of the thread was about snow use. Apologies for the confusion, but I meant that they were legendary in general use. If you want a great performing snow tyre, then get a true, fit for purpose snow tyre! How about the hand-made ones by Arctic Trucks at £2500 each!! Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I find it interesting that Land Rover use these tyres on Experience vehicles and seem to work fine on their courses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 When I bought my 110 it had General Grabber TR tyres on - I imagine original from the factory. I soon changed them for BFG muds but during the time I used then I found them to be very good in all conditions. They did not excel at anything but as an all rounder they worked well for me and were certainly a lot quieter on the road than the MTs! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Baldwin Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I fancy doing La Croisière Blanche in 2009, but they require you to have AT tyres (and snow chains) .. are Grabber TRs OK or do I need to splash out and get BFGs?Thanks Mark I thought the CB regs stipulate M/T tyres rather than A/T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkL Posted July 14, 2008 Author Share Posted July 14, 2008 Hi All, what did I start? I reckon I'll still be going for BFG A/T or M/T! The Cros will probably a once off (famous last words!!) so I won't be splashing out on 'mainly-snow' tyres . need value for my cash so a tyre that will cover a range of terrains is what I need! Kev.. from what I can make out A/Ts are OK. On the website it says under "Matériel Obligatoire" that you need "Pneus tout-terrain" i.e. All-terrain! Thanks everyone Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 I reckon I'll still be going for BFG A/T or M/T! From further up.. If you want an AT tyre that is useable to an extent in snow then the General Grabber ATII worksbetter than BFG's tyres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Baldwin Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 I'd say the Cooper S/T (not to be confused with the STT) is the tyre that best fits your requirements. It's a MT/AT hybrid that even comes in the thinking mans 255 tyre size. Will be perfect for CB without deafening you on the long drive to the alps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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