JimAttrill Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Hi, filled up the 110 this morning so I can calculate my litres/100 and Mpg. The vehicle has 272 000 kms on it and the consumption average over 236 000 (I bought it at 36k) is 10.35 l/100 kms I reckon that is about 27 mpg. Using wi over 5196 kms (actually I switched it on after about half of that but need to measure full to full tanks) I get 9.84 average with 10.03 on the last tank. This seems to be about 29 or 30 mpg. Anyway, the difference is 5% It seems to be worth the effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 sounds very effective Jim, Any noticeable diffierence with the engine when driving? more torque? Might have to have a go myself with my 200 Tdi Cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted September 8, 2008 Author Share Posted September 8, 2008 I can't feel any difference and the EGT doesn't seem to change either. Without putting it on a rolling road it would be hard to tell. I am considering adjusting the wastegate to get a bit more than 1.05 bar boost, but that would negate my test results up till now. So I shall leave well alone until the next time I fill up - about a month from now as diesel is set to go down in price on the 1st October - the price is adjusted country-wide once a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cipx2 Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Do you plan or is there a chance for you to run some dyno tests for a more accurate measurement of fuel consumption with & without WI at some given engine power levels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted September 8, 2008 Author Share Posted September 8, 2008 I'll just carry on measuring my fuel consumption - which is something I have always done anyway. I reckon the longer the distance covered the less possibility of miscalculations or wishful thinking. Who knows, as diesel has shot up in price recently maybe I am driving more slowly. I say 'more slowly' because this is a 300Tdi after all Albeit tweaked a bit, but with 272k kms on the clock it is not exactly just run in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gruntus Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Hi Jim, Where did you get the WI kit from? I am also interested in how you adjust the amount used etc. I only ask as I rememeber a friend (back in 1989) had a turboed opel manta with water injection and just curios where the injector sits and how you regulate how much water to use.. Pics of the setup would be awesome! Regards Grant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted September 8, 2008 Author Share Posted September 8, 2008 Ok here's a picture. The turbo pipe is an EGR Disco pipe, the thingy in the foreground is the injector, the thing behind it is the boost switch and the pump is a Disco II headlamp washer pump which gives about 3 bar. I got the injector and the switch from DevilsOwn in the US. Their stuff is much cheaper than that available in the UK which is mainly for turbo petrol cars like WRC Scoobies. I don't adjust the amount used at all. That requires computer control etc which is difficult on a Tdi. The nozzle gives out 2 US gal/min (maybe) depending on the flow rate and pressure of your pump. I started off with injection at 'flat out' ie 1 bar boost, but have brought it down to .3 bar as there seem to be no bad effects. I was worried about hydraulicing of course. The setup uses about 50cc/km so the tank has to be refilled every day. I shall soon fit another tank in series. I now have a light across the terminals of the pump to show when the wi is on. Remember that I am purely after better fuel consumption, not greater power, so mixing methanol with the water is not an option, even though we have 220l in a barrel here. I want to save money, not spend it on methanol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roybatty666 Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Been a while since I read up on this (for a petrol car so I may be a bit off on my info) With the water injection bringing the intake charge temp down, giving condensed air and also reducing the cylinder temps aren't you meant to lean the fuel out as you don't have to worry about pre-detonation? This would give optimum efficiency as you will be over fueling as a percentage of the fuel being added is not for combustion but for cooling purposes and you have water being added for that. Using methanol in there adds all sorts off issues if memory serves as you need to calculate the calorific value (energy) that the methanol adds to the fuel air mic as well as the chamber cooling / air density effect. This is probably all to ott for a TDI Landy and only applicable to highly strung petrol turbo'd engines I think a form of 5 / 6 stroke engine operation is the way to go, so much "free" power to be had Cool project though chap, On an unrelated note my misses is from langebaan and used to go "Bundu Bashing" in the Namibian desert, she thinks England sucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gruntus Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Ok here's a picture. The turbo pipe is an EGR Disco pipe, the thingy in the foreground is the injector, the thing behind it is the boost switch and the pump is a Disco II headlamp washer pump which gives about 3 bar. I got the injector and the switch from DevilsOwn in the US. Their stuff is much cheaper than that available in the UK which is mainly for turbo petrol cars like WRC Scoobies. I don't adjust the amount used at all. That requires computer control etc which is difficult on a Tdi. The nozzle gives out 2 US gal/min (maybe) depending on the flow rate and pressure of your pump. I started off with injection at 'flat out' ie 1 bar boost, but have brought it down to .3 bar as there seem to be no bad effects. I was worried about hydraulicing of course. The setup uses about 50cc/km so the tank has to be refilled every day. I shall soon fit another tank in series. I now have a light across the terminals of the pump to show when the wi is on. Remember that I am purely after better fuel consumption, not greater power, so mixing methanol with the water is not an option, even though we have 220l in a barrel here. I want to save money, not spend it on methanol. Hi Jim, First off apologies for not replying to your great response, my company have banned a lot of internet access including hotmail from work and I hadn't seen your response! (I guess I will have to work now instead) Secondly, lets hope you dont have to start paying for water! With regard to the water injection is there any detriment to the bores etc? I understand that WI cools/condeses the charge going into the induction cycle but was never sure what quantity of moisture (if any) is actually seen in the cylinders. In my minds eye I pictured something simlar to a fuel injector spraying water into the charge however I imagine the reality is a very, very fine spray (micro mist) that is negligable once it has done its work in condensing the hot air before induction. Thanks again for your response. Cheers Grant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gruntus Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 I think a form of 5 / 6 stroke engine operation is the way to go, so much "free" power to be had Hi Roy, How does a 5 / 6 stroke engine work? Your first answer might explain my second question, how is it free power? Cheers Grant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 4 stroke engine with a 2 stroke bolted on the back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 After you've been through the 4 stroke cycle (exhaust, induct, compress, burn) you allow the piston to return to TDC with the valves closed, then inject a slug of water spray. This turns to dry (hopefully) steam in the hot environment and expands, giving you a second power stroke from the latent heat in the cylinder. In reality you'd need a reground camshaft that turns at 1/3 crank speed (not 1/2 speed as at present) with different lobes to allow another 360' of crank motion without valve operation, you'd obviously need water injection equipment direct into the cylinder, and probably a bigger radiator since you'd be transferring more heat to the cooling system with the longer gas residence time. Taking heat out here will probably reduce the efficiency of your turbocharger too, since that's trying to recover the same heat. IMHO, not a home conversion. What Jim's done here is as far as most people would go with water injection, and I'm pleased it's giving such good results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discojmz Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 IIRC the most recent version, the Crower 6 stroke reportedly does not need any kind of cooling system. Assumedly because that heat energy from combustion is transferred to the injected water, and then expelled from the exhaust in the form of steam with claims of 40% reduced fuel consumption and no loss of power vs 4 stroke equiv, I for one would love to know the drawbacks of this system that have stopped it being advanced and adopted on a large scale. There must be some huge disadvantages that are escaping me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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