Adding rear seats to a 5seat D2

[AdamP]

We've just bought a 2001 Disco 2 TD5 GS mainly for lugging a Pug 205 race car and associated gear around. It's a perfect car, 5 miles down the road, 40k miles, a minter and a steal, however it isn't a 7seater. This isn't a problem, however at a later date it might be nice to have 7 seats.

I take it all the mounts are still there in the 5 seat? Is it literally a bolt in seats and seatbelt operation (as well as the rear step which isnt vital), or is it more involved than that?

Cheers in advance!

Adam

[scrumps]

We've just bought a 2001 Disco 2 TD5 GS mainly for lugging a Pug 205 race car and associated gear around. It's a perfect car, 5 miles down the road, 40k miles, a minter and a steal, however it isn't a 7seater. This isn't a problem, however at a later date it might be nice to have 7 seats.

I take it all the mounts are still there in the 5 seat? Is it literally a bolt in seats and seatbelt operation (as well as the rear step which isnt vital), or is it more involved than that?

Cheers in advance!

Adam

Hi Adam,

The first question is " have you got (optional) rear air suspension or is it a 5 seat "coils all round" Disco?

Only Disco 2's with Self Leveling Air Suspension have UK type approval. If you fit the seats, essentially you will have an illegal vehicle and all the aggro that goes with it if you have a bump.

I believe it is a simple job to replace the bins with seats but you will also need to look at fitting the rear headrests in the roof panel as well if you have got SLS.

Regards

Scrumps

[AdamP]

Its a coils all round jobby.

It might not have UK 'type approval' but as long as they are declared to the insurer and its on the logbook as 7 seats it shouldn't be illegal. Type approval is only for mass production cars, if a car had to undergo type approval for every modification made then we'd all be driving around in bog standard cars.

Cheers for the advice

[scrumps]

Its a coils all round jobby.

It might not have UK 'type approval' but as long as they are declared to the insurer and its on the logbook as 7 seats it shouldn't be illegal. Type approval is only for mass production cars, if a car had to undergo type approval for every modification made then we'd all be driving around in bog standard cars.

Cheers for the advice

Adam,

Before you go a head with the changes to your Disco, Check the Road Traffic Act 1988 Section 63(3) which states that it is an offence to use a vehicle which has been altered from the Type Approval Certificate granted by the Secretarty of State.

I've checked the V5C on BOTH my 7 seat Disco's (well...my G4 and the sandbags Pursuit) and the "Type Aproval " numbers in Section 4 Para K are the same. I can find nowhere on the V5C to change this when you apply to add the extra seats so it will be interesting to see if the DVLA system picks up that the Type Approval numbers don't equate to a 7 seat coiler.

Also bear in mind that the reason that 7 seaters have air suspension is to allow the vehicle to run level with extra weight over the rear axle (passengers 6 & 7),, making the vehicle more stable.

Regards

Scrumps

[AdamP]

What it actually says is that 'Any person who uses a vehicle on a road when an alteration has been made to the vehicle or its equipment which is required by regulations is guilty of an offence.'

There are no regulations which require a car with 7 seats to have air suspension! Plenty of people swap the bags out for coils anyway, what's the difference?

[scrumps]

What it actually says is that 'Any person who uses a vehicle on a road when an alteration has been made to the vehicle or its equipment which is required by regulations is guilty of an offence.'

There are no regulations which require a car with 7 seats to have air suspension! Plenty of people swap the bags out for coils anyway, what's the difference?

Hi Adam,

This will be my last post on this subject.

You quote "which is required by the regulations".....the regulations i.e. Type Approval, states that a 7 seat Discovery should have Self Levelling Air Suspension. If you deviate from that you are in contravention of the "regulations".

As far as I'm concerned there is NO difference between replacing the rear air springs on a 7 seater with coils, as fitting 2 extra seats to a 5 seat coiler.

They are BOTH in contravention of the design submitted by Land Rover for European Type Approval and the relevant testing as a safe vehicle to use on the road.

You decide to change that ...it's at your risk. All I was pointing out originally was that while the engineering evolution to fit the seats wasn't necessarily difficult or expensive the ramifications if there were a professional vehicle examination of your Discovery in the event of an accident then you could be liable for the outcome. We have had a forumeer in the national papers recently for problems caused by poor modifications to a Land Rover, I would hate there to be another.

I hope you enjoy the Disco. We think ours are brilliant (and the TD5 90 CSW as well).

Best Regards (whatever you decide)

Scrumps

[AdamP]

Thanks for the advice. The regulations are infact 'Construction and Use' regulations. Although type approval says 'yes, the 7 seat discovery with air suspension is legal for sale in the UK' and 'yes, the 5 seat discovery with coil springs is legal for sale in the UK', it doesnt say anything else. Land Rover will have only put the seven seat forward with air suspension as they weren't planning to sell it without it. There's nothing in Construction and Use regulations to say that they must have air suspension.

[BogMonster]

I agree with what Scrumps says about the recent media circus surrounding another modified Land Rover. It's how I feel about it too, I wouldn't cut corners on anything that could either be used in a prosecution or by an insurance co as a get out clause. That's different from whether or not it is dangerous, which it probably isn't.

[jiginc]

If as you say, and I don't doubt it, the 7 seater needs the Air suspension what happens if I change the air bags for springs as advertised in all the magazines.

Are they in contravention of any regulations to offer something that will make the car illegal and dangerous.

[BogMonster]

Good question...

[forkrentfitter]

go ahead,fit the extra seats,just remember your insurance company will find any reason to wriggle out of paying a claim if you have an accident,like wise if you hit another vehicle and occupants sustain injury,you may well find yourself uninsured,but hey you seem to know best,so why ask the question?

[J@mes]

go ahead,fit the extra seats,just remember your insurance company will find any reason to wriggle out of paying a claim if you have an accident,like wise if you hit another vehicle and occupants sustain injury,you may well find yourself uninsured,but hey you seem to know best,so why ask the question?

he's already mentioned telling the insurance company about the mod, so pipe down.

[Dave W]

We have had a forumeer in the national papers recently for problems caused by poor modifications to a Land Rover, I would hate there to be another.

I didn't think he'd been prosecuted for the modifications themselves. I understood that the modifications were viewed in a dim light because some of them were really badly done but at the end of the day he was prosecuted for bad driving and driving a vehicle he knew was defective. The two primary causes of the accident were excessive speed and the failure of a radius arm mount that failed at, for his family, the worst possible time.

On the more general theme modifying a vehicle from it's type approval isn't illegal, only selling a new vehicle that's been modified is. As an example, certain TVRs had to be type approved with plain wheels because the wheel was needed to reduce the exhaust noise in a specific direction. Dealers sold them with the wheels used for type approval but all dealers then would offer the "aftermarket" option of fitting TVR's alloy wheels to the vehicle.

All vehicles get modified away from type approval, just changing the tyres to a different make would be a modification from the type approval, never mind changing the tyre size.

[ste clark]

the answer to your question would be yes!!

you are obviously aware of the laws and you intend to do everything to comply with them!!

this is unfortunately just another post hi-jacked by the dont modify your landrover or you will die posse!!

[BogMonster]

this is unfortunately just another post hi-jacked by the dont modify your landrover or you will die posse!!

Actually it's just a thread warning of the possible risks of doing such modifications.

If in the light of properly researching the subject the original poster wants to modify the vehicle as stated then that is up to them, if their insurance company is properly informed and consents to the modification then that's fine.

I do not think it is inherently dangerous as the load of two extra passengers is unlikely to be more than a bootful of luggage and anyway I happen to think, having driven several of both, that the coil spring variant is actually slightly more stable to drive than the air spring variant.

[forkrentfitter]

he's already mentioned telling the insurance company about the mod, so pipe down.

just hope he doesn,t have an accident with you and yours,regardless of wether he tells a clerk on the phone at the insurance company,he would struggle to make it stand,i know because my father was hit by a third party with :modifications: to his car,turned out his insurers renaged on the policy,so no i won,t pipe down.

[forkrentfitter]

the answer to your question would be yes!!

you are obviously aware of the laws and you intend to do everything to comply with them!!

this is unfortunately just another post hi-jacked by the dont modify your landrover or you will die posse!!

sorry old bean,but i do have a modified land rover and i do know what i am talking about,

[AdamP]

just hope he doesn,t have an accident with you and yours,regardless of wether he tells a clerk on the phone at the insurance company,he would struggle to make it stand,i know because my father was hit by a third party with :modifications: to his car,turned out his insurers renaged on the policy,so no i won,t pipe down.

You blatently don't have a clue :lol:

You drive a modified landy therefore you will die.....

In a similar way, would you say that all the companies who sell aftermarket boot seats for estate cars are selling goods not fit for use? I didn't think so.

But lets stop feeding the troll.

[ste clark]

sorry old bean,but i do have a modified land rover and i do know what i am talking about,

first thing.. i never once implied anyone didnt know what they were talking about...

i am pretty sure 90% of the people on here have a modified landrover and the majority of us know where we stand with the law and if we dont we ask the question directly...

it seems that every time someone asks a question on here it spools back to the mr gresham case....

it is getting tedious..

every one is aware of this case as it gets stuffed in their face in every post on here..

unfortunately, some people drive un safe vehicles be it knowingly or not, but unless you make it your mission in life to go out there and inspect every motor personally then there is little that can be done..

one very tragic and unfortunate motoring incedent involving a poorly modified landrover as a result of the modifications and poor maintenence in so many years......

its not as if it is happening all the time,

I for one was shocked by that incedent and i have found myself checking things a bit more thouroughly when i am under my landrover..

i am just getting tired of every post having comment after comment on the subject and still no answers to the original question!!!

[forkrentfitter]

You blatently don't have a clue :lol:

You drive a modified landy therefore you will die.....

In a similar way, would you say that all the companies who sell aftermarket boot seats for estate cars are selling goods not fit for use? I didn't think so.

But lets stop feeding the troll.

i blatently do have a clue,by the way this has gone obviosly more of a clue than perhaps you,but as i said earlier go ahead,do what ever you think,after all ask a question then answer it yourself and shoot down anyone with a differing opinion,why bother asking the question oh great one?

[BogMonster]

If this turns into a slanging match, and it is getting close, then the thread will be locked.

If you all have a different opinion on the matter and nobody has any actual facts to offer then I suggest everybody agrees to differ and leave it at that.

[AdamP]

IIRC my thread was asking about fitting rear seats, not the legalities of modifying a land rover....

Fact: Type approval is for new cars

Fact: Cars must adhere to Construction and Use regulations

Fact: Nowhere in said regulations does it say air suspension must be fitted to 7 seat cars.

Fact: A Discovery is rated to carry a lot more than 100-200kgs in the boot!

Fact: As long as you declare modifications to an insurer, when you sign the contract then you have a contract. If you mislead the insurers then you don't.

I see a lot of facts there. Cheers for the help guys, i think the thread can be locked now.

Adam

[BogMonster]

In response to your original question, yes it is likely to be a bolt-in operation and I don't think that any of the trim etc is fundamentally different in a seven seater, if it follows usual Land Rover practice it is likely to have cutouts which haven't been cut out. What I suspect you would find is that there are all the holes in the right places in the bodyshell, but lots of fiddly little brackets missing from under the trim which are required to fit the seats. Best advice if you are serious about doing it is probably to have a look in yours first to see what it looks like (take one of the side panels out, it isn't that hard) and then try and get access to a breakers to pull out everything that isn't there. I assume you're not going into the whizzy niceties like rear seat headphone sockets or rear aircon, which might need some more in depth changes to be made.

Personally I've always found the rear bins to be more useful than seats because none of the rear seats in either D1 or D2 are very comfortable except for young kids which I don't have.

[AdamP]

In response to your original question, yes it is likely to be a bolt-in operation and I don't think that any of the trim etc is fundamentally different in a seven seater, if it follows usual Land Rover practice it is likely to have cutouts which haven't been cut out. What I suspect you would find is that there are all the holes in the right places in the bodyshell, but lots of fiddly little brackets missing from under the trim which are required to fit the seats. Best advice if you are serious about doing it is probably to have a look in yours first to see what it looks like (take one of the side panels out, it isn't that hard) and then try and get access to a breakers to pull out everything that isn't there. I assume you're not going into the whizzy niceties like rear seat headphone sockets or rear aircon, which might need some more in depth changes to be made.

Personally I've always found the rear bins to be more useful than seats because none of the rear seats in either D1 or D2 are very comfortable except for young kids which I don't have.

At the moments the bins are more useful for us too, i'm just thinking if there comes a time when we think 'damn, we'd find those seats useful now'.

Literally would just want a seat and seatbelt each side, tbh i couldn't see land rover making anything much different between the 5st and 7st, although I come from a french car background where they change things mid way through production just to keep us on our toes.

Thanks for the helpful reply

[discomikey]

i think youre all getting a biit OT here,

all the man wants to do is add extra seats to his vehicle, not give it a 5 million inch lift like a certian land rover driver previously mentioned, and if you ever do anything to the cars running setup, you should either know what youre doing, NOT THINK YOU KNOW, or get a specialist to help you/check its done right.

mikey

and yes i think it is just a bolt on jobby