boost monitoring/EGT monitoring

[jacks906]

hi

a while i think i was given a link to a unit that could measure/monitor these things and i thought i was from x-eng

unfortunately i cant seem to find it anymore so should i source a seperate guages (as i already have a boost guage found it in my tool box)

if i remember correctly the unit would also measure other things water temp/oil pressure/etc so wouldnt mind finding the unit or a similar unit if anyones knows of one

i'd ask locally but havent learnt hungarian yet

cheers

dave

[cieranc]

You're thinking of MadMan gauges, they're South African.

I believe X-Eng were looking to source some, but availability was err, unpredictable. Give X-Eng a ring, see if they've made any progress.

Or for a low cost EGT gague, try: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DIGITAL-EGT-THERMOME...p3286.m63.l1177

[Gromit]

If it's the madman you're thinking of, it's a great piece of kit.

Here's my review of it.

I ordered mine from www.landyonline.co.za/

[vtrdaz]

http://www.irbdevelopments.com/shop.html

This chap sells them - he's Porny on here.

Daz

[jacks906]

will have to try an get one when back in the UK from one of the two links

but at the mo i have a boost guage in me tool box so going pop that in the dash till i take a trip back home

one question is tho am i right in thinking that pressure is at constant pressure acting on all of the inlet manifold weather it be were it comes in or on the back wall closest to the bulkhead the pressure should still read 1 bar?

just that bolt screwed in the back seems like an easy way to do it for now till i get a proper job.

cheers

dave

[western]

got my boost gauge connected at the Tee piece at the front of the turbo, gives me a good reading at all times.

[David Sparkes]

... one question is tho am i right in thinking that pressure is at constant pressure acting on all of the inlet manifold ...

Yes.

[Monster]

You're thinking of MadMan gauges, they're South African.

I believe X-Eng were looking to source some, but availability was err, unpredictable. Give X-Eng a ring, see if they've made any progress.

Or for a low cost EGT gague, try: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DIGITAL-EGT-THERMOME...p3286.m63.l1177

hi,

Definitely interested in these. Have you used them?

Whats the difference in the k probes? There is one with an exposed tip and a cheaper one with a smaller tip. The exposed tip has a faster response time but is it really worth an extra 15.00? What sort of delay are we talking here though. Is it a few hundreths of a second, seconds, minutes?

Had a look on the web about probes but none the wiser!

I am just looking for a general monitor for my engine to prevent meltdown, not a race monitor.

Look forward to your thoughts.

Cheers.

[Ex Member]

You do not want an exposed tip as it will burn off over time, IMO.

Those meters work well. The regular 1/4" TC should be fine and are what most people use.

[cieranc]

Monster, I have the type in the second picture, which came with the gague. It has an exposed end. The technical bumpf that comes with it states it samples four times a second, so should be plenty fast enough for general monitoring use.

The gauge also has an output, you can set it where you like. This could be used to sound a buzzer or switch a fan relay if you've got an electric fan.

Have I used it? No, not yet. I've fitted the gague and wired it up but not yet fitted the thermocouple, though this should be a straight forward job. I've seen a thread here where people suggest using a shop vacuum cleaner to catch the swarf whilst drilling the manifold. Although this method may have worked for some people, I'm not convinced, and will be removing the turbo to put a magnet in the manifold to drill and tap it.

I wired the thermocouple to the gague to see if it works, and it immediately read 17*c, which the digital temp gague in my pals car also read.

Fits nicely where my Beday switch once was:

[ldtopham]

I work with thermocouples daily. We often see EGT's of 750 deg C and find that 3mm solid probes tend to fail (they bend in the flow and often break on our test work) a lot earlier than a 6mm probe. Where ever possible we always fit 6mm probes as it isn't fun if a failed/burnt thermocouple gets ingested in to a turbo

If it was me I would fit a solid 6mm probe, Even if you expect lower temps it will stand up to heat and exhaust pulses a whole lot better. Most temp probes are relatively slow in gauging compared to say pressure measurements but a general probe will be fine for sustained 'hill/ towing' EGT measurement.

Hope this is of some help.

[Ex Member]

I work with thermocouples every day as well and a 3 mm made from the proper sheathing will last forever in this application. The velocities are quite low.

IMO, a 6 mm has a reposnse time that is inadequate for proper peak measurements.

[ldtopham]

You have a point Red90. We see about 3 seconds difference in response times between the 2. What I did forget is that my experience of them is on 20ltr to 4 ltr engines, we do see a lot of bent/ broken T/C's but I would guess our duty cycles are a lot more aggresive than what a LR may be subject to.

Out of interest does any one know the sustained EGT limit for the 300TDI engine?

[David Sparkes]

Out of interest does any one know the sustained EGT limit for the 300TDI engine?

Ha, now there's a can of worms :-)

No, I don't know, but what you might get is a lot of figures bandied about that are actually people repeating what they are told, without knowing the validity of the original comment.

Working in this area, you recognise the value of a reliable figure, as opposed to a guesstimate.

I suspect that the best you can hope for is people reporting what they have seen for sustained or at least significant amounts of time, with the engine surviving for a few thousand miles afterwards

For instance, with the BMW 2.5 turbocharged straight 6 I've seen a flash reading of the high 900s Centigrade while climbing Shap Fell, four up at sustained full throttle. IE it took time and opportunity to get numbers above 950, and they lasted for less than a minute. That was a few years ago, and similar circumstances have never occurred again.

Cruising will be 400 ish, 600 is not uncommon, and I can get 800 without too much trouble, but I rarely push hard enough for long enough to say more than 600 is sustained for a significant period of time.

On the other hand, the engine is still in one piece.

The other point to be aware of is where the temperature is measured. Is the sensor probe wiped by exhaust gas from each cylinder, or just one cylinder? The difference is obvious to you, and with a bit of luck it isn't an issue, as most automotive TC diesels seem to have EGTs measured at the entry port of the Turbo, so the sensor gets wiped by gas flow from every cylinder. My thermocouple is certainly at the manifold to Turbocharger connection, so sees all 6 slugs of exhaust gas.

Bottom line of course is that my experiences are with the 'wrong' engine, and I certainly wouldn't transfer across my experiences to the 300TDi.

Good Luck.

[ldtopham]

Bottom line of course is that my experiences are with the 'wrong' engine, and I certainly wouldn't transfer across my experiences to the 300TDi.

Good Luck.

So very true. Each LR that is going to be tuned (to get the best from your state of tune) will be differnt to the next Land Rover depending on use, ie heavy towing, slow rpm work, cruising ....

When I get the engine back together again (Cam belt change) I'll instrument it up and see where it is runing at stock before tweaks, for nothing more than out of interest I need to take the inlet manifold off for cleaning anyway so may as well fit a tamp boss on the turbo flange and a boost tapping/temp probe on the IM at the same time.

[Paul H]

Is the blanking plate for the egr valve a suitable place to put the probe?

[western]

Is the blanking plate for the egr valve a suitable place to put the probe?

Yes.

[Ex Member]

I use 700 C (pre-turbo) as the alarm point.

[cieranc]

Well, fitted my thermocouple today and went for a play.

Defender spec 200TDi in a 2.2ton 110csw, with Defender 1.41 ratio Tbox and 7.50R16 tyres.

Hard acceleration in 4th on boost gets me just over 600*c, cruising in 5th gear at 50mph 440-480*c, ticking over 130 and falling. Revving to 2500rpm in neutral gets me 250-280*c.

Havn't tried it with the plant trailer/weight on yet.

Samples/responds very quickly (four times a second), quicker than is necessary for general monitoring IMO.

So I'm going with Red90's setting above, going to set the alarm at 700*c, with the alarm output used to switch the fan relay. My thinking is that the radiator will require no assistance, the VDO gague never budges off 88*c no matter what I do (not even pulling a 3.5 ton trailer up Saddleworth), but the fan assistance should pull some more air through the intercooler and hopefully drop the EGT as required.

To be continued............