tazzman Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Hi I'm looking for a new (rebuild) injectionpump for my 200tdi motor. The problem is i can not see any number identifying the pump. I know it's a Bosch VE pump. Anybody here know if there are differences between disco and defender 200tdi pumps? Or in other words, are all injectionpump for 200tdi the same(when we talk about bosch pumps) Br Tazzman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cipx2 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Defender 200tdi, engine code 11L, 107 HP ERR1333 ... Bosch # 0 460 414 080 ... Bosch type VE4/11F1900R347-1 ... single stage advance box: 9 degrees advance Discovery 200tdi - engine code 12L, 111 HP ERR459 (ERR0459) .... Bosch # 0 460 414 069 ... Bosch type VE4/11F2000R347 - double stage advance box: 7 degrees advance with 3 degrees start retard ERR459 (ERR0459) .... Bosch # 0 986 440 212 ... Bosch type same as above - this Bosch # is used for exchange units, discontinued 10/2005 ERR1985 - for the Austrian market Discovery ... Bosch # 0 460 414 093 ... VE4/11F2000R462 - discontinued 05/1995 The data should be written on the injection pump where the arrow points (the pictured inj pump is not for a 200tdi): A close up of the rectangular area (on an ERR6700 Disco 300tdi EGR pump): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzman Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 Hi cipx2 What a great reply, exactly the info i needed. Thank you so much. Br Tazzman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Silly question time, what the difference between the pumps?? They interchange i belive, fuel pressures?? or?? educate me please. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cipx2 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 The main differences are already in my previous post, maybe not that obvious though: 1. the Defender pump max speed is 1900 rpm (this is the meaning of the '1900' in the Bosch type code). That's the inj pump rpm after which the fuel quantity starts to decrease (the governor preset rpm). That's why the max power on the Defender engine is at 3800 rpm (double the governed rpm of the inj pump) whereas the Discovery engine has 111 HP at 4000 rpm 2. the advance curves are different (that's clearly in my previous post). Yes, they can be fitted in place of the other. I wouldn't call them interchangable since the engine output will be different. The pressure is the same, 650 atm IIRC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuko Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Cip, thanks for the educational information. I'll be looking at the extra injector pump I have to see what it actually is. (I'm not totally certain that it came from the vehicle that it was claimed to) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzman Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 Cip I get the impression you are the injection pump expert around here. Maybe you can comment my problem. I have a 200tdi with code 11L. I don't know the history of the engine and cannot see the number on the pump either. But my problem with the engine is: It's running a little rough on idle, and if you drive downhill with just a little throttle is knocking og ticking a little bit. It pulls well. The people i have been showing the problem to says that it sounds like a bad injector nozzle, so i replaced all nozzle tips. But no change. So now i wonder if the previus owner of the engine could have been replacing the injectorpump with a pump from a 12L enginge, and if this could result in problem like i have??? Or is it likely that a worn or broken injectorpump (even the correct one) can make troubles like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger90 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 when you say 9 degree advance.. am i to asume that the 9 degrees is for dot on the diaphram? or is it the injector pump angle? or is it somthing els? cheers sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Badger: 9 degrees advance will relate to the injection timing. The diaphragm controls the extra fuel for boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger90 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Badger: 9 degrees advance will relate to the injection timing. The diaphragm controls the extra fuel for boost. okay thanks.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bush65 Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 when you say 9 degree advance.. am i to asume that the 9 degrees is for dot on the diaphram? or is it the injector pump angle? or is it somthing els? cheers sam The pump has a automatic timing advance mechanism. It run across the bottom of the pump (behind the 20bolt cover that you can see in the 1st pic above. There is a vane pump at the front of the pump that pressurises the fuel proportional to pump speed. This pressure is used to alter/advance the timing. Edit: because the pump is driven at half engine speed, the timing advance angle has to be doubled when added to the static timing value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzman Posted January 9, 2010 Author Share Posted January 9, 2010 I'm wondering a thing. From the info from CIP I see the difference is the advance of the pump. 9 degree in 11L and 7 in 12L. But what is the difference between 11L and 12L engine then? I was told the cylinder head is the same and basically the rest is the same (except the position of the turbo) But what is the reason for the difference in the pump then. I mean, is it the camshaft, cylinder etc? And what will happen if I fit a 12L FIP on my 11L engine? Tazzman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 the 12L version was only fitted to RRC & Discovey Tdi engines which have more bhp/torque than the Defender 11L engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzman Posted January 11, 2010 Author Share Posted January 11, 2010 But any idea what will happen if I fit a 12L FIP on my 11L engine? Br Tazzman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 But any idea what will happen if I fit a 12L FIP on my 11L engine? Br Tazzman And also, would we get that little bit more out of our defenders by fitting disco pumps? Do they produce power and torque to complement their respective gearing setups perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bush65 Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 I would think that the pumps are basically the same but calibrated differently from the factory, thus needing a different identification number - a Bosch service shop relies on the ident number to find the calibration and other info when they service the equipment. You can have the calibration changed on your existing pump for much less expense compared to buying another pump. AFAIK there is not much difference in stock power/torque between the 2 versions, and most people would like rather more. Either pump can be calibrated for more power/torque than the best stock level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white horse Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 What is the difference between the 200tdi and the 300tdi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Not a huge amount. A 300 pump will run a 200 engine with no ill effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 59 minutes ago, vulcan bomber said: Not a huge amount. A 300 pump will run a 200 engine with no ill effects. Seems to be working fine on mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Rattler Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Thank's guys, i know its a very old thread but as regards 200tdi FIP's its something i've been trying to ask and keep getting told they are both the same for a defender and disco 200tdi but they both have different part numbers which has always made me think they arn't and you have answered my question. I am currently running a series 2a swb which i have fitted a defender 200tdi from a defender 90 i used to own but the timing case was damaged when i got the 90 where the alt and power steer bracket bolted to so i re-dressed the engine as a discovery engine but using the defender FIP but the engine seems to run out of puff a bit to quick for me and will only do 70 mph even though i have 3.54 diffs fitted, now i used to have another series 2a swb 200tdi that was fitted with a discovery 200tdi with std gearing and o/d and that would do between 80-85. I've always suspected the FIP on this one as when i did the re-dressing i replaced the timing belt as well which means the timing belt is longer on the discovery engine so must have some effect on the defender FIP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Rattler Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 On 7/26/2017 at 10:05 PM, vulcan bomber said: Not a huge amount. A 300 pump will run a 200 engine with no ill effects. Mite even go this way if it works 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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