fender1234 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 hi, Last night my 200tdi did not want to start, i thought this might be down to the cold and having not started it for a few days etc. so i bump started down my road, it did start but misfired horribly and lots of grey smoke, after drivng for a mile or so there was no smoke and it ran like a dream for the next 25 miles, then it conked out whilst ticking over, but started again. It just didnt want to idle but would be fine when above idle, and no lack of power, i though maybe it was fuel filter. Then when i pulled up it started conking out then revved up on it own to silly revs, so i quickly turned off key and it turned off straight away, then left it for a bit then managed to start it again but it absolutely poured out with blue smoke so I switched it off and got a tow home. Im not sure where to start with this problem as ive never experianced anything like it, any ideas on diagnosis would be much appreciated. thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicks90 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 hmmm. starting with a bad idle as the air filter is blocking up with sump oil maybe, eventually making its way through the pipework and then running on its own oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender1234 Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 thanks for the idea, my air system is a through the cab snorkel with no air box just a little air filter at the end of the snorkel dont know weather that changes things or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errol209 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 hmmm. starting with a bad idle as the air filter is blocking up with sump oil maybe, eventually making its way through the pipework and then running on its own oil. Or the valve seals leaking hugely. It really does sound like a running-on-oil issue, especially with the revs running away and the blue smoke. How much oil is there in the intercooler and pipework? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 What about the bearings in the turbo leaking oil into the intake? Explains poor performance and the running on oil bit. Not sure it accounts for the rough idle though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike4444244 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Might not be the only problem going on, but I would agree with the turbo oil seals... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender1234 Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 right had a look over lunch, the turbo is covered in oil so im guessing thats the culprit, however the engine is near on siezed, so i think the damage has been done when the engine ran away with itself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 If running on oil from the Turbo, turning off the ignition should not stop it, unless it was only recieving a small amount of oil - Diesel's dont need electric to run, apart from holding open the fuel solenoid.... How do you come to the conclusion that the engine is 'nearly' seized? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender1234 Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 I took the glow plugs out, but the engine barely turns over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Are you turning it over with the starter or with a socket on the crank? I would turn it over with a socket as there could be many reasons why it's stiff or slow on the starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 hmm...just wondering about earth quailty...a failing earth would make a slow starter...tried a jump lead from engine to battery -ve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 But why would a poor earth suddenly occur because it over revved once? I agree, you will get a much better feel by turning it with a socket, but if a lot of oil has been burned, it may well have seized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender1234 Posted December 18, 2009 Author Share Posted December 18, 2009 right it would seem that somehow i have a starter/battery issue coincidently at the same time as all this happening. Having diagnosed further yesterday, the engine turns over by hand freely so engine isnt seized, as turbo was covered in oil i assumed that this had blown a seal and let oil into the engine, however after takeing the air filter-turbo pipe off it would seem that the oil has come from the breather not the turbo, so am i right in thinking that the sump is being pressurised? what are possible reasons for this? how should i go about finding the problem? thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 It could just be the breather filter is blocked. Have you cleaned it out at all? When it was running, did it ever push the dipstick out of it's hole? I was suprised to see how much pressure there was in my engine under the oil filler cap, but when I took the breather off when it was running there was no oil being pushed out of the block so I was fairly happy with that. If it is the block being pressurised, it could be a head gasket or the valve stem seals, but I would check the breather filter and clean it out with petrol or similar. Is there a lot of oil in the intercooler? Would be worth giving that a good clean out too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender1234 Posted December 18, 2009 Author Share Posted December 18, 2009 hi, Thanks for that infomation, dipstick hasnt been pushed out, intercooler is full of oil so will clean that and all airhoses whilst fixing the main problem, i wiil clean out the breather although unless i dont quite understand how it works, surely if the breather was blocked oil wouldnt be able to pass through it to get into the air system? Im prepared for the worst, so if it was head gasket or valve stem seals, i would be farely happy with that, im just hoping its not something around the piston area, as its far to cold to start messing about with stuff like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete3000 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Sounds like a head gasket to me, classic failure on TDi if the gasket goes through from cylinder wall to oil galley engine will run and rev up even with the fuel feed off, if it is really bad. Can pressurise crankcase, or cooling system if gasket goes through to water galley. See if oil level is low. A pressure test will confirm it. Someone will correct me if i'm wrong. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender1234 Posted December 18, 2009 Author Share Posted December 18, 2009 If that is the case i will be farely happy with that as a head gasket is cheap and not to hard to change. time to get the head off by the looks of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 hi, Thanks for that infomation, dipstick hasnt been pushed out, intercooler is full of oil so will clean that and all airhoses whilst fixing the main problem, i wiil clean out the breather although unless i dont quite understand how it works, surely if the breather was blocked oil wouldnt be able to pass through it to get into the air system? Im prepared for the worst, so if it was head gasket or valve stem seals, i would be farely happy with that, im just hoping its not something around the piston area, as its far to cold to start messing about with stuff like that. Head off should explain eveything with a bit of luck. I would get the head pressure checked and maybe skimmed, just in case there is something more than just the gasket. Also, don't get one of the new metal head gaskets to replace the one you are openning up. Get an Elring gasket. Don't try to cut corners with this, because you don't want to have to do it again for a little while yet. I learned this the hard way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD5 power Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 hi I'd agree with pete definitely sounds like head gasket failure and should be fairly easy to see once off (lump missing out the gasket between cylinder and push rod tube) Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender1234 Posted December 19, 2009 Author Share Posted December 19, 2009 Got the head off today, ther isn't anything realy obvious that points at head gasket failure, few chunks missing etc but can't see anything that goes from cylinder to oil way, what else shud I be checking whilst the head is off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete3000 Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I would have run the pressure test first with the old gasket in situ, now you have it off however, I would replace gasket with correct good quality one and try the pressure test again. While the head is off I would have a looky around the cylinders and valves to check for any strangeness. If the gasket was o.k it may be the head??????? as Tetsu0san says. Check both sides of the old gasket as it may not be obvious from one side even 1mm or so will do it. Look for soot/oil marks Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 If there are any bits missing on the gasket then I would say that it has probably failed. If it was OK there would be no marks or missing bits on the gasket (although I may be wrong). I would get the head checked for cracks and get it skimmed. Are there any marks in the bores and are they stepped near the tops? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD5 power Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 hi could you post some pics of the head gasket and the block, head gasket faces as well. I am very much picking at straws here with this one but is your air cleaner element clear, the only reason i ask as if the element became blocked with a sealed snorkel it will try and suck the air it needs through the breather system collecting some engine oil with it and leading the engine to run on. HTH matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender1234 Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 Hi, I will take some pictures today and post them. I don't run an airbox, I just have a green cottons filter, and then a straight pipe into the engine so I can't see that being the problem, as it's much fee flowing than the airbox. The bores look ok but I'm no expert so will take a picture, there is a small lip at the top of each cylinder. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 You said: Then when i pulled up it started conking out then revved up on it own to silly revs, so i quickly turned off key and it turned off straight away, To which I replied: If running on oil from the Turbo, turning off the ignition should not stop it, unless it was only recieving a small amount of oil - Diesel's dont need electric to run, apart from holding open the fuel solenoid.... So I dont believe it to be the turbo seals leaking oil into the intake, however, whats the possiblilty of it leaking oil into the exhaust side of the turbine? In the red hot exhaust hosuing, this oil would smoke badly. Agreed, it doesnt explain the loss of power occuring at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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