split charges

[hobson]

I was going to use a T-max split charge for my secondary leisure battery to run the fridge, but no-one has them in stock, can anyone reccomend another one?

and does the x-charge one work the same way? it looks more geared to winching than leisure battery charging....

thanks

[Matthew]

I was going to use a T-max split charge for my secondary leisure battery to run the fridge, but no-one has them in stock, can anyone reccomend another one?

and does the x-charge one work the same way? it looks more geared to winching than leisure battery charging....

thanks

This one has worked very well for me, and for a number of years - been underwater a good few times and just keeps going!!

http://www.drakemarine.co.uk/acatalog/Voltage_Sensitive_Relays.html

[M&S]

This one works for me http://www.rawcomponents.co.uk/intelligent-split-charge-kits/intelligent-50-70a-model Comes with EVERYTHING (including tie wraps). Good service and so far proving reliable after 12 months use.

[Mark]

I can't comment on Matthew's offering, but the one linked above is no different to the X-eng version (bar a couple of fuse holders).

The x-eng offering is simple, and does exactly what is required. It comes with good clear instructions, and si offers discounts through the forum...

hth

Mark

[TJN]

Just fitted the X-Eng one at the weekend very easy and straight forward.

[hobson]

but i thought if you were using a leisure battery it was better to have a split charge that isolated the batteries and only charged when needed...

or am i a spanner?!

[LandyManLuke]

Look at VSRs or Voltage Sensitive Relays. They work very well in applications like overlanding, where you want a bit more of a considered approach to switching the relay in and out. A bonus is that they are very easy to wire in.

I have a BEP Marine VSR which is waterproof. It's been fitted for about 6 years now.

[MrKev]

I think the idea with split charge systems in general is so that you don't discharge your starter battery when running the accessories - winch, fridge, radio equipment or whatever, and also so that you don't place a cranking load on your auxiliary battery, which may well be of an unsuitable type.

When the engine is producing charge, it should be maintaining both.

If you just want to run a fridge off the leisure battery (~15A?) have you considered a product aimed at caravan 12S circuits? These are around a tenner from places like Towsure.

[hobson]

My brain hurts from ringing round all day! i've ordered one from vehicle wiring products for just over 20 quid including postage, according to Brownchurch that should be fine for my needs as i'm not running a winch or anything powerful.

a lot less than the t-max unit too! just have to work out how to fit it!

thanks for the replies everyone.

why is it whenever you plan a trip for months it's always the last week when it all hits the fan?!

[M&S]

I can't comment on Matthew's offering, but the one linked above is no different to the X-eng version (bar a couple of fuse holders).

hth

Mark

I didn't think the X-eng was a Voltage Sensing Relay? At least I'm sure it wasn't when I was looking last year. The one I have is a VSR, which I preferred for my TD5.

[roguevogue]

I didn't think the X-eng was a Voltage Sensing Relay? At least I'm sure it wasn't when I was looking last year. The one I have is a VSR, which I preferred for my TD5.

Unless the photo on the link you posted is not actually what you have then there is no difference in the operation of that kit and the X-eng one. As Mark says, apart from the fuses the kit contains the same components.

[headhunter]

I have a VSR fitted, same as Matthew and Luke, for a number of years, excellent product designed for the marine industry, very compatible with wet Land Rovers...

John

[M&S]

Unless the photo on the link you posted is not actually what you have then there is no difference in the operation of that kit and the X-eng one. As Mark says, apart from the fuses the kit contains the same components.

I am sure Simon will be along to confirm things, but as far as I can see (from having fitted the one in the link above, and reading the instructions for fitting the X-Charge) they are not the same thing.

The one I linked to is a VSR, the X-eng system does not use a VSR, it uses a standard relay.

From the X-Charge instructions:

Some vehicles, notably Land Rover Td5 and some late 300Tdi models use what is

known as a battery sensed alternator.

If you connect your split charge as above, you will notice that the charge light on your

dash remains illuminated and the split charge relay will not energise.

The solution is simple. The orange wire, instead of connecting to the alternator, must

be connected to an ignition live which does not go live while the starter motor is

cranking the engine.

A good example of this would be the ignition power feed to your radio. Usually the radio

does remains off while cranking.

If you cannot find such a live feed, just connect the orange wire to any ignition live.

This suggests that it is NOT a VSR that comes with the X-Charge.

The kit I linked to uses a VSR. This waits until it senses 13.7v at the starter battery before switching to split the charge. As I said above, works well, no tapping into the vehicles existing cables, and has so far proved reliable.

Both do the same job though, just in different ways. I have no affiliation to either company, I was just offering a suggestion based on a product that I have used to do the job that the OP wanted.

[PaulMc]

The kit that M&S has linked to from Raw Components is not a Voltage Sensing Kit.

I've seen that kit before on eBay and had thought then that the description was a load of old 'blah, blah, blah, bull$h1t'

The Relay they show in their picture is a Nagares RL/180-12

Which, AFAIK, is an ordinary Normally-Open Contacts Relay, here's an extract from the Nagares Catalogue -

The description is full of cr@p like -

The kit is on offer to include everything as standard and includes:

Brand New Intelligent Voltage Sensing Circuitry

- where???

20 years experience as a qualified auto electrician

- included in the kit???

and -

Fully automatic charging of the secondary / auxiliary battery

utilizing integrated circuit technology

- where???

This only commences once the engine has being started and the alternator has raised the terminal voltage of the vehicle's battery to a pre-determined voltage

Once this threshold is reached then the circuitry comes alive and commences the charging of the secondary / auxiliary battery

and -

It is paticularly suited to the less electrically minded person

as only 2 connections need to be made to the vehicle's battery

- because they won't be asking awkward questions such as - "where's the VSR"

.

[LandyManLuke]

Has anyone else actually bought one of the kits? Is it not possible that the voltage sensing circuit is included, but not pictured?

It would be quite sensible to use a seperate circuit to switch the relay, which we can all see in the photo above.

The advert is correct, in that a VSR requires only to be wired between the two batteries, with a sense wire and ground, so no wiring is required to the alternator etc.

Whilst I agree that the picture doesn't show what you'd expect, it seems a little keen to smash the guy to bits over it...

[petethepilot]

I use a normal Bosch isolating relay which I bought from the caravaning store, it activates charging from the alternators signal to the warning light. Works well in TD5 and was really cheap (about 20£) and is rated for 70A, which is more than adequate because most universal free time batteries can only take 20A/h of max. charge.

If you want to use both your batteries for winching but separate the batteries when the engine is not running, Warn among others makes those relays which are rated to 120A .

[M&S]

Has anyone else actually bought one of the kits? Is it not possible that the voltage sensing circuit is included, but not pictured?

It would be quite sensible to use a seperate circuit to switch the relay, which we can all see in the photo above.

The advert is correct, in that a VSR requires only to be wired between the two batteries, with a sense wire and ground, so no wiring is required to the alternator etc.

Whilst I agree that the picture doesn't show what you'd expect, it seems a little keen to smash the guy to bits over it...

Yes, I have purchased and fitted the kit, and it has been running for 12 months without any problems. That is why I offered it as a recommendation

I agree, there is no need to smash them to bits over it, when there service is excellent and many other Landy owners have been happy with their kit (I bought it on recommendations). And they offer a 3 year warranty with the relay. But hey, they are full of **** so that means nothing does it

They were recommended to me by other users, and when I actually phoned and spoke to them directly about my requirements they were VERY helpful (guess that's the 20 years experience part, that you don't see just from looking at a photo), even including extra cable for free. But what do I know.

I said it above, and I will say it again, as RAW Components say on their site, this IS A VSR kit that you get.

Here is a photograph of it installed in my TD5 Disco. It happily charges my Numax 85ah Leisure Battery, and has done for 12 months. Simple, fuse holders, relay, cable, sleeve, cable ties, ring and spade connectors, all included. Job done.

If it wasn't a VSR then it would be permanantly closed wired like this, which it is not. Start the engine and you hear it click over, see the voltage increase at the leisure battery to 14v, stop the engine and it drops back to 12v. The small black and red cables with the red spade connectors are conected to the +ve and -ve of my starter battery.

It does what it says on the tin. But hey, what do I know

[LandyManLuke]

M&S, where is the voltage-sensing part of the circuit housed? Is it in what looks like the fuse holder top right? or is that just a fuse holder and the circuit is somewhere else?

Do you know the switching voltages? I would expect some hysteresis, closing the contacts at say 13.8 volts, and opening at say 12.5 volts.

Luke

[MrKev]

My guess is they've put the voltage sensing circuit inside the plastic relay housing. (They do say integrated circuit technology, after all!)

Some folk on this thread seem a bit harsh on the manufacturer, without seemingly having seen or used the product in question, don't you think?

[M&S]

Luke, the relay itself switches at 13.8v (so on at 13.8V or above, off at below 13.8V).

MrKev, you are correct, it is all in the relay housing.

There is nothing else except what you see, so the relay, 3 fuse holders (2 in the charging lines, one in the sensing line), and the cables etc. No fancy circuits anywhere.

Some figures from across the battery terminals:

Main battery 12.54

Leisure battery 13.01

Main battery charging 14.40

Leisure battery charging 14.37

As I say, I have nothing to gain by recommending them, just thought I was being helpful by recommending a product I am happy with from a supplier who was very helpful.

I don't understand why it turned into a slating of the company or the product.

Forums, gotta love 'em

[LandyManLuke]

My guess is they've put the voltage sensing circuit inside the plastic relay housing. (They do say integrated circuit technology, after all!)

Luke, the relay itself switches at 13.8v (so on at 13.8V or above, off at below 13.8V).

MrKev, you are correct, it is all in the relay housing.

There is nothing else except what you see, so the relay, 3 fuse holders (2 in the charging lines, one in the sensing line), and the cables etc. No fancy circuits anywhere.

All seems logical.

The only difference with a purpose-built VSR is that the sense and supply lines are combined, there are only two studs (high current supply and sense, high current output) and a smaller trailing wire (ground for sense circuit)

Some folk on this thread seem a bit harsh on the manufacturer, without seemingly having seen or used the product in question, don't you think?

As I say, I have nothing to gain by recommending them, just thought I was being helpful by recommending a product I am happy with from a supplier who was very helpful.

I don't understand why it turned into a slating of the company or the product.

I agree, there's no need to go off at the deep end.

Luke

[Aragorn]

I'm not so sure.

Your claiming its all integrated into the relay....

But the part number on the relay in the photo of your disco is that for a completely standard 12v relay capable of handling 100A...

In fact heres the very same relay on the same companies website, with no mention of any intelligent gubbins:

http://www.rawcomponents.co.uk/relays-holders/100-amp-12v-relay.html

[hobson]

I thought i'd add to this thread rather than start another, i got my split charge thing from vehice wiring proiducts today and the gent i spoke to was right, the instructions aren't great, i'll admit i'm a complete spanner when it comes to electrics, so can someone please explain how it works?!

here's a scan of the instructions, i can't make sense of how it works, i need it to be REALLY simplified, imagine giving the instructions to a rhesus monkey, i might be able to follow that!

thankyou

[Mark]

Have a look at the x-eng instructions.

However, looking at the instructions above, it can be very much simplified - you need 4 wires:

1) take a large cable from either the positive terminal of the vehicle battery or the main charging stud/terminal on the alternator to one of the large studs on the split charge relay (terminal 3 on the diagram above)

2) take another large cable from the other large stud on the split charge (terminal 5) to the positive terminal on the auxilliary battery.

3) take a small wire from the sense terminal on the alternator (this also feeds the charge light in the dash) to one of the small terminals on the split charge (terminal 1).

4) take another small small cable from the other small terminal on the split charge (terminal 4) to ground.

This assumes the aux battery is also grounded (ie the neg terminal is connected to a common ground, like the chassis).

hth

Mark

[LandyManLuke]

I'm not so sure.

Your claiming its all integrated into the relay....

But the part number on the relay in the photo of your disco is that for a completely standard 12v relay capable of handling 100A...

I think it's fair to say that relay started out as its labelled, but who's to say it hasn't been modified? It's not beyone the wit of man to open the case, drop an IC in and put the case back together.

Regardless, anyone can either take M&S' voltage readings as proof enough, or actually contact the supplier and ask them directly.

Nothing like some hard facts to ruin a good argument.....