disco_al Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 We have ordered a head gasket in for one of our customers to do a 300 tdi. We asked for the elring gasket, which they have sent, but they have also supplied a multi layered steel gasket as well - i didn't even realise they existed for the 300 tdi. Could this be a solution to the head gasket problems some 300's seem to suffer from??? or even a good mod to carry out when changing the gasket for those who want to run higher boost? part number is LVB500220 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 I've just been supplied with one from my dealer. The deale No is LVB 500220. It weights a ton...Hopefully I won't have to use it. Your's is slightly different to mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milliejasper1111 Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 I changed my head gasket for one of the multi layered ones (genuine part) the chap in the stores said its a "fit and forget" Also just done one on a mates rover with the 1800cc k-series engine in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 I had a bad experience with a multi layered head gasket where it failed immediately and had to be removed in favour of a normal Elring gasket. However, it was a sh**part gasket. Before fitting it I checked with the supplier to make sure it had the same tightening settings as the fibre gaskets and they said it did. After fitting it and it failing they eventually told me that the torque settings (or the angles you have to tighten the gasket to) were different to a fibre gasket. I would hope to say that if I had known this when I fitted it original that it may well have not failed. Just confirm without any doubt the tightening values and I would hope you will be OK. At least it's not a sh**part one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milliejasper1111 Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Im quite friendly with the parts chap, and a few in the workshop, they printed out all the angles for me Good job really, as it was quite differnt to what mr Haynes was saying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Do you know what the angles were? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milliejasper1111 Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 I can let you know tomorrow! the print out is in my workshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milliejasper1111 Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Or PM me your address, and i can send you everything the guys at Land rover gave me. It was handy to have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 PM sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Or PM me your address, and i can send you everything the guys at Land rover gave me. It was handy to have! If you would addthe info to this thread, it can be linked into out Tech Archive for every member to access Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 When I asked at my sealer they told me to pull it down as normal. So please could I have that information on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milliejasper1111 Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 If you would addthe info to this thread, it can be linked into out Tech Archive for every member to access Will do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piper109 Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Where can one buy the steel head gasket? Is it from an aftermarket supplier, Land rover Dealer? Does it have a special part number, brand etc? Can you please point me to the correct torque settings/angles. Am I right in thinking that I should use a new set of head bolts too? Thanks, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 I've put in a genuine one of those, didn't come with any instructions so I fitted it as per the instructions in the RAVE. Didn't really run it long enough to see if that gave any problems though. But torque data would certainly be welcome for the next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 MLS gaskets are becoming more popular to replace the composite type. I would say that composite gaskets have a life, whereas an MLS doesn't. You do have to make sure you get a good quality MLS gasket (I fitted a cheapy to a Freelander and it leaked before I even started the engine). BGA are good quality gaskets and Camberley Auto Factors supply them. Payen and Eling both also supply this type of gasket. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLR100 Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 MLS gaskets are becoming more popular to replace the composite type. I would say that composite gaskets have a life, whereas an MLS doesn't. You do have to make sure you get a good quality MLS gasket (I fitted a cheapy to a Freelander and it leaked before I even started the engine). BGA are good quality gaskets and Camberley Auto Factors supply them. Payen and Eling both also supply this type of gasket. Les. I fitted one of these metal layerd gaskets to a tdi as supplied from bearmach and it leaked straight away so had to do the whole job again with a propper one, a friend also tried one and had problems with it so i can only say from my experience don't bother and get a normal one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Sounds like there are more than one type of these multi layered metal gaskets, and there is a lack of general information as to the tightening settings for them. Until it's a liitle more documented I think I will stick to the fibre one, although I do like the idea of the metal gasket. If they are fitted right there must be less chance of failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 I've never yet come across a variation in the head tightening sequence or torque/angle/deg when using an MLS gasket on any vehicle. When you buy any decent quality head gasket - be it composite or MLS, there's a label in the packet that gives you the sequence and torque anyway. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 I've never yet come across a variation in the head tightening sequence or torque/angle/deg when using an MLS gasket on any vehicle. When you buy any decent quality head gasket - be it composite or MLS, there's a label in the packet that gives you the sequence and torque anyway. Les. Not with one from Land Rover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Elring do, as I have just done one with a fibre gasket. However, cheaper ones tend not to come with tightening details. The multilayer s**tpart one didn't, and when they finally told me that the angles were greater I decided to go back to an Elring fibre one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLR100 Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 Elring do, as I have just done one with a fibre gasket. However, cheaper ones tend not to come with tightening details. The multilayer s**tpart one didn't, and when they finally told me that the angles were greater I decided to go back to an Elring fibre one. I don't think the angles make any differnce, in a vein attempt to save me doing the job twice i pulled the head down further to as much as i dare and it still would not seal, they are just cr*p! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 You have now over-stressed your head bolts, so now you'll have to replace them as well as your head gasket Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bush65 Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 I had a bad experience with a multi layered head gasket where it failed immediately and had to be removed in favour of a normal Elring gasket. However, it was a sh**part gasket. Before fitting it I checked with the supplier to make sure it had the same tightening settings as the fibre gaskets and they said it did. After fitting it and it failing they eventually told me that the torque settings (or the angles you have to tighten the gasket to) were different to a fibre gasket. I would hope to say that if I had known this when I fitted it original that it may well have not failed. Just confirm without any doubt the tightening values and I would hope you will be OK. At least it's not a sh**part one... I fitted one of these metal layerd gaskets to a tdi as supplied from bearmach and it leaked straight away so had to do the whole job again with a propper one, a friend also tried one and had problems with it so i can only say from my experience don't bother and get a normal one IMHO the better composite head gaskets for the 300Tdi will still fail at some time in their life when boost pressure is kept close to stock. The genuine stock MLS head gaskets as used in my Isuzu engine have been shown to be reliable with over 40psi boost pressure. However that engine has a cast iron head and will not suffer from differential expansion like the cast iron engine block and aluminium head of a Land Rover Tdi. In many other applications MLS head gaskets have proven to be superior to composite gaskets. The above posts indicate MLS gaskets from some particular suppliers have failed/leaked soon after installation. I assume they were for Land Rover Tdi engines as per the thread starter. The posters that experienced problems have not stated whether the issue was combustion pressure leaks or coolant passage leaks. Nor have they indicated if there might be some other reason - e.g. head and block flatness/surface finish, soft spots in head due to overheating, if any coating was applied to the joint surfaces, re-used head bolts (possibly in different positions), etc. Did the failed MLS gaskets have a bonded rubber coating on the joint surfaces as the one pictured in the 1st post seems to show? When the failed MLS gasket was replaced with a composite gasket that hasn't since failed, were any other issues addressed? I don't wish to cast aspersions on those people, just would like to see more in depth details to help me make a decision. I have been planning to fit a MLS gasket in my Disco 300Tdi when I fit a VNT turbo that will produce higher boost pressure. During a partial overhaul of a 300Tdi, before fitting it into my old rangie, I over tensioned/rotated the new head bolts by about 10% with a new composite head gasket. I don't believe this over stressed the head bolts - even though I see many claims that the stock tightening procedure produces yield in the bolts, I believe those are simply presumptions and not proven. I look forward to seeing the head bolt tightening procedures that were recommended for the MLS gasket as mentioned in another of the posts in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 The one that failed on me was fitted to a Freeleander 1.8i. It dribbled water out of the gasket join directly below the exhaust manifold. I removed and inspected it and it looked perfectly ok (I still have it). I fitted another MLS gasket (with head saver), and tightened it the same as for a composite type (20nm, 180-deg, 180-deg). No leaks and the engine is fine still. I have since then fitted many MLS gaskets (Escort EFi and Pajero this week), and have not yet had one fail on me. I aways use either BGA, Elring, or Payen gaskets. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco_al Posted July 19, 2010 Author Share Posted July 19, 2010 MLS gaskets usually fail as a result of not haveing perfectly smooth/flat surfaces to seal against. they are much less tolerant to imperfections in the block/head face. i have used MLS gaskets in the past (mainly on the 8v Ford DOHC engines, and they are way more reliable than the standard composite ones, so much so that Ford actually superceded the comp. gasket to the MLS one as a result of HG failures on these particular engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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