Offroading the D3

[toger]

UK spec Disco 2's are as follows:-

Earlier cars:- E, S, GS, XS, ES. (5 & 7 seat option on all).

Last Run:- Pursuit, Landmark, ES Premium (5 & 7 seat option on Pursuit only).

All 7 seaters have air at the rear.

All 5 seat will have ACE as standard bar the E (and possibley pursuit 5 seat).

All XS and ES 5 seats have ACE standard.

ES Premium has centre diff lock and ACE as standard.

Hope it helps

Mark

So,

my search for a lift kit of a decent size for the coiler D3 is for the future a no-no.

There are some on other forums who believe that the D3 will have a short shelf life anyway and will be gone in about 3 to 4 years after next years release of the new defender (i don't know if this is true or not)

I do still like the look of the bug eyed D2 and thought.

Instead of keeping my D1 and doing a 4inch lift or whatever, how about I buy a D2 with ACE/HDC/SLS and with all of the toys and then rip out the airbags and do a 2"OME lift all round?

Bogmonser????

[BogMonster]

So,

my search for a lift kit of a decent size for the coiler D3 is for the future a no-no.

There are some on other forums who believe that the D3 will have a short shelf life anyway and will be gone in about 3 to 4 years after next years release of the new defender (i don't know if this is true or not)

I do still like the look of the bug eyed D2 and thought.

Instead of keeping my D1 and doing a 4inch lift or whatever, how about I buy a D2 with ACE/HDC/SLS and with all of the toys and then rip out the airbags and do a 2"OME lift all round?

Bogmonser????

Not sure what would happen if you started ripping out airbags, on the older Discoverys the SRS system was pretty much self contained and you could do it if you wanted to, but the pooters all talk to each other in the D2 and I think the others would all have a rebellion if you took one of their chums away (i.e. lots of warning lights and bongs!). Also I am not sure what the MOT man would make of it from a type approval point of view as there has never been a non airbag D2 - on the old one you could "convert" it to the "other type approved non airbag spec" if you see what I mean, and nobody would really know the difference, but you couldn't do that on a D2 or D3 for that matter. But I really don't know what the rules are I am afraid, but I'd get two or three opinions from MOT testers before you break out the wire cutters

Personally I think you're on the right lines but my approach, if I was going to use a Discovery, would be to buy a vehicle similar to mine i.e. non SLS non ACE, only a drivers airbag and start from there.

[western]

LRE is Land Rover Experience.

LRE = Land Rover Enthusiast one of the 4 UK LR mags.

[toger]

LRE = Land Rover Enthusiast one of the 4 UK LR mags.

LRE is Land Rover Experience of which there are 8 centres around the UK.

Vince Cobley is the Managing Director.

Yes I know there is a mag with the same initials but we were not talking about the mag

ta

[western]

LRE is Land Rover Experience of which there are 8 centres around the UK.

Vince Cobley is the Managing Director.

Yes I know there is a mag with the same initials but we were not talking about the mag

ta

Ah. that clears that up then

[toger]

Personally I think you're on the right lines but my approach, if I was going to use a Discovery, would be to buy a vehicle similar to mine i.e. non SLS non ACE, only a drivers airbag and start from there.

Phew, decisions decisions.

If they did a defender with proper air conditioning and proper leg room I'd buy one

hey a tomb raider...........

[BogMonster]

Phew, decisions decisions.

If they did a defender with proper air conditioning and proper leg room I'd buy one

hey a tomb raider...........

Why not wait until the new Defender comes out at the end of the year......

You never know what they will come up with

One of the reasons I wouldn't buy a D3 was actually given to me by a bloke who worked for Land Rover years ago. He said "you don't want to buy Japanese because they are all designed as a 3-5 year ownership experience, nothing will go wrong, get rid of it at the end of that time and you will be happy and buy another one. Just don't plan to keep one for 10 years". You can say much the same about the D3/RRS/PRR (Proper Range Rover ) nowadays I think. Designed for the first owner, which is after all the person that Land Rover wants to come back and buy another one so who can blame them really?

[toger]

Why not wait until the new Defender comes out at the end of the year......

You never know what they will come up with

One of the reasons I wouldn't buy a D3 was actually given to me by a bloke who worked for Land Rover years ago. He said "you don't want to buy Japanese because they are all designed as a 3-5 year ownership experience, nothing will go wrong, get rid of it at the end of that time and you will be happy and buy another one. Just don't plan to keep one for 10 years". You can say much the same about the D3/RRS/PRR (Proper Range Rover ) nowadays I think. Designed for the first owner, which is after all the person that Land Rover wants to come back and buy another one so who can blame them really?

But what will the new defender be?

[LR90]

Can't imaginge the new defender will be greatly different from what we have now other then new power plant. Its still there to satisfy the mil and utility companies primarily who wouldnt want large scale changes.

[BogMonster]

One might hope that the rubbish bits would be improved and the good bits left largely as they are

[MJIbex]

The upgrades to the Defender later in the year include a new engine and gearbox.

The Bonnet is different to accomadate the taller engine.

The dashbord and instrument binical are different.

The 90 SW become maximum 4 seats and 110 SW 6 seats - all to do with seat belt regs.

Mark

[geoffbeaumont]

Not sure what would happen if you started ripping out airbags, on the older Discoverys the SRS system was pretty much self contained and you could do it if you wanted to, but the pooters all talk to each other in the D2 and I think the others would all have a rebellion if you took one of their chums away (i.e. lots of warning lights and bongs!). Also I am not sure what the MOT man would make of it from a type approval point of view as there has never been a non airbag D2 - on the old one you could "convert" it to the "other type approved non airbag spec" if you see what I mean, and nobody would really know the difference, but you couldn't do that on a D2 or D3 for that matter. But I really don't know what the rules are I am afraid, but I'd get two or three opinions from MOT testers before you break out the wire cutters

Personally I think you're on the right lines but my approach, if I was going to use a Discovery, would be to buy a vehicle similar to mine i.e. non SLS non ACE, only a drivers airbag and start from there.

Which airbags are you talking about? It might be me talking at cross purposes, but I thought toger was talking about ripping out the air suspension springs rather than the crash protection air bags.

[toger]

Which airbags are you talking about? It might be me talking at cross purposes, but I thought toger was talking about ripping out the air suspension springs rather than the crash protection air bags.

I was but I believe that Air Suspension Springs and airbags are the same thing in this context.

I am now aware that Devon 4x4 have done exactly this.

Still cant make up me mind between a 90 and a D2

If I could just put a D2 interior and legroom into a 90!!

[BogMonster]

Oh I see I was talking about airbag airbags (the one in the steering wheel) sorry!

Why buy an SLS vehicle and then rip the SLS out when you can buy a non SLS one which would be cheaper anyway?

[Andy]

why not just put those spacer plates in the air suspension? i know a D2 thats had a 2" lift that way. you just insert the plate above the airbag, so when the bag inflates to the normal size the car is the thickness of the plate higher. the leccys dont know any difference & it all works as before.

[BogMonster]

why not just put those spacer plates in the air suspension? i know a D2 thats had a 2" lift that way. you just insert the plate above the airbag, so when the bag inflates to the normal size the car is the thickness of the plate higher. the leccys dont know any difference & it all works as before.

you would need to fiddle with the linkage on the SLS height sensor because that goes on halfway along the radius arm so all that would happen is that the air spring would lower until the vehicle ride height was correct again

Of course a cheap suspension lift could be had by just fiddling with the linkage so that the back end thinks it is too low then it pumps itself up and voila! I have not tried this but I see no reason why it should not work

Can't remember if the SLS linkage is adjustable or not but it wouldn't be rocket science to modify it anyway

[geoffbeaumont]

you would need to fiddle with the linkage on the SLS height sensor because that goes on halfway along the radius arm so all that would happen is that the air spring would lower until the vehicle ride height was correct again

Of course a cheap suspension lift could be had by just fiddling with the linkage so that the back end thinks it is too low then it pumps itself up and voila! I have not tried this but I see no reason why it should not work

Can't remember if the SLS linkage is adjustable or not but it wouldn't be rocket science to modify it anyway

Down side to doing this is that it will also raise the height on road, which will affect stability and, if speculation on this thread is accurate, potentially the CV joints.

I don't know the D3 EAS system at all, so I'm striking out into pure guess work here, but if it's anything like the (much, much simpler) Range Rover Classic system then the sensor is a simple potentiometer (variable resistor). You could alter the height by either modifying the wiring so that you can adjust the voltage seen by the EAS controller (ie. fit another potentiometer either in series or parallel, depending whether you need to increase or decrease resistance). This could be done in a way which would allow it to be set up and then switched into the circuit when required.

Alternatively, you could have the ride height altered in the EAS controller (which will require a diagnostic computer). The advantage of this is that you only change the ride heights you want, so standard and cruise heights can remain the same but off road height is raised. There's also no modification to the hardware required, so no problem with devalueing the vehicle (possibly not a major issue if you're off roading it anyway) - just have the standard ride heights restored and no-one will be any the wiser.

[Andy]

i wasnt aware of the ride height sensor, i dont remember it being mentioned when i was told how the lift was on my mates D2.

as for just increasing the rideheight, he went against that idea as he'd heard it over streaches the airbag & reduces their life.

[BogMonster]

i wasnt aware of the ride height sensor, i dont remember it being mentioned when i was told how the lift was on my mates D2.

as for just increasing the rideheight, he went against that idea as he'd heard it over streaches the airbag & reduces their life.

It probably does but their life is not all that great anyway

[geoffbeaumont]

It probably does but their life is not all that great anyway

Again, I'm going on experience of the Range Rover Classic system, but then as far as longevity goes we've no direct evidence for the D3 yet - the bladders of the air springs seem to be good for around 125k (the pistons will last the lifetime of the vehicle). Replacing just the bladders is fairly cheap if you do it yourself using aftermarket bladders, which can be longer than the OEM ones (there won't be any aftermarket ones for the D3 yet, I guess - but doubtless will be when plenty of them are getting to that age). Alternatively replacing the entire air spring is more expensive but very easy. Coil springs will remain serviceable for longer, but I reckon on a three ton truck they'll be past their best by then.

I'm not sure raising the ride height will reduce the life of the bladders - the problem on the RRC seems to be more that it increases the risk of pulling a bladder off a piston (fixable in the field, but a PITA). Using the longer aftermarket bladders is reported to get round this, but presumably isn't an option for D3 owners.