Nuts and bolts

[ninjagreg]

Hi, so I searched previous forums so that I didn't waste anyone's time but I couldn't find anything. Very quick and hopefully simple question. What nut and bolts will I need when doing a chassis swap - I really only want to replace any bolts that come into contact with the chassis e.g. body work and anything up front in the engine bay.

Does anyone know what are the common sizes I need?

Which is preferable zinc or stainless?

Also are there any "tonnage" considerations? (I actually hadn't heard of this phrase until I went into my local agricultural shop to buy some bolts!) I assume it refers to the tensile strength of the bolt?!

Any help and opinions greatfully received.

Also are there are any bits that are worth replacing whilst the chassis is being swapped - and I mean bits that aren't easy to get to normally.

Thanks.

[FridgeFreezer]

Buy a metric BZP party selection or two from Namrick, should be a good start although you may find some shorter ones (M8 / M6 x20 ish) would be useful.

[Retroanaconda]

Things like suspension bolts, steering, bulkhead mounts etc. should be replaced with high-tensile bolts. Basically, if there is an H.T. bolt on there already, replace it with another.

For things like attatching body panels together (wings to front panel, roof to side panel, roof to windscreen frame etc.) then stainless will work, but be aware that it will cause a faster galvanic reaction with steel/aluminium parts than a normal bolt would. Stainless steel bolts tend to be weaker too, although this of course depends on the grade of bolt you are comparing against.

In terms of sizes, you will need plenty of short M6 and M8 bolts. Most of the body is held together with these. Most M6s are either 16mm or 20mm long, and most M8s tend to be 20mm. A good idea is to buy a selection as suggested above, although you will likely need to add to it. Becoming familiar with your local fastener stockist is probably a good idea.

As for what else do you replace, well that's dangerous thinking...a chassis swap can easily turn into a full rebuild if too much of the "well I'll change it while it's off" stuff goes on. Personally, I would take each part and assess it based upon it's replacement cost, and the amount of work required to do so, but also the vehicle history.

For example, the clutch. If I knew the clutch had only been done recently then I wouldn't bother changing it, even though I had the engine/gearbox apart. Let's say the suspension bushes had an unknown history though, for the relatively small cost of replacing them that is definitely something I would do while the thing is apart.

Also a good idea to give everything a damn good clean and a coat of paint where applicable. Bracketry, axles etc. Quite labour intensive, but cheap to do and makes future servicing easier if parts are clean. Also looks good

[Maverik]

Things like suspension bolts, steering, bulkhead mounts etc. should be replaced with high-tensile bolts. Basically, if there is an H.T. bolt on there already, replace it with another.

For things like attatching body panels together (wings to front panel, roof to side panel, roof to windscreen frame etc.) then stainless will work, but be aware that it will cause a faster galvanic reaction with steel/aluminium parts than a normal bolt would. Stainless steel bolts tend to be weaker too, although this of course depends on the grade of bolt you are comparing against.

In terms of sizes, you will need plenty of short M6 and M8 bolts. Most of the body is held together with these. Most M6s are either 16mm or 20mm long, and most M8s tend to be 20mm. A good idea is to buy a selection as suggested above, although you will likely need to add to it. Becoming familiar with your local fastener stockist is probably a good idea.

As for what else do you replace, well that's dangerous thinking...a chassis swap can easily turn into a full rebuild if too much of the "well I'll change it while it's off" stuff goes on. Personally, I would take each part and assess it based upon it's replacement cost, and the amount of work required to do so, but also the vehicle history.

For example, the clutch. If I knew the clutch had only been done recently then I wouldn't bother changing it, even though I had the engine/gearbox apart. Let's say the suspension bushes had an unknown history though, for the relatively small cost of replacing them that is definitely something I would do while the thing is apart.

Also a good idea to give everything a damn good clean and a coat of paint where applicable. Bracketry, axles etc. Quite labour intensive, but cheap to do and makes future servicing easier if parts are clean. Also looks good

Retro speaks from experience!!! Very wise words, I went down a very similar route and only just finished... A ratcheting 13mm spanner will be very useful also.. or at least 2 x 13mm spanners.

A wire brush fitment on a drill is also usefull as you can fettle the "special" bolts you can't/don't want to replace, have a tub of grease next to you and put a little bit on the bolts/nuts before you re-asseble, good for anotehr 25 yrs....

[ninjagreg]

Buy a metric BZP party selection or two from Namrick, should be a good start although you may find some shorter ones (M8 / M6 x20 ish) would be useful.

Thanks a lot, I've just placed an order with Namrick for a couple of mixed packs of HT BZP nuts and bolts. Is it wrong to get excited about nuts and bolts?!!

[ninjagreg]

Things like suspension bolts, steering, bulkhead mounts etc. should be replaced with high-tensile bolts. Basically, if there is an H.T. bolt on there already, replace it with another.

For things like attatching body panels together (wings to front panel, roof to side panel, roof to windscreen frame etc.) then stainless will work, but be aware that it will cause a faster galvanic reaction with steel/aluminium parts than a normal bolt would. Stainless steel bolts tend to be weaker too, although this of course depends on the grade of bolt you are comparing against.

In terms of sizes, you will need plenty of short M6 and M8 bolts. Most of the body is held together with these. Most M6s are either 16mm or 20mm long, and most M8s tend to be 20mm. A good idea is to buy a selection as suggested above, although you will likely need to add to it. Becoming familiar with your local fastener stockist is probably a good idea.

As for what else do you replace, well that's dangerous thinking...a chassis swap can easily turn into a full rebuild if too much of the "well I'll change it while it's off" stuff goes on. Personally, I would take each part and assess it based upon it's replacement cost, and the amount of work required to do so, but also the vehicle history.

For example, the clutch. If I knew the clutch had only been done recently then I wouldn't bother changing it, even though I had the engine/gearbox apart. Let's say the suspension bushes had an unknown history though, for the relatively small cost of replacing them that is definitely something I would do while the thing is apart.

Also a good idea to give everything a damn good clean and a coat of paint where applicable. Bracketry, axles etc. Quite labour intensive, but cheap to do and makes future servicing easier if parts are clean. Also looks good

Thanks for all the sound advice, yeah I'm only going to replace what is absolutely essential, or logical to do. I'm going to keep a photo log so it might help someone else on here.

[ninjagreg]

Retro speaks from experience!!! Very wise words, I went down a very similar route and only just finished... A ratcheting 13mm spanner will be very useful also.. or at least 2 x 13mm spanners.

A wire brush fitment on a drill is also usefull as you can fettle the "special" bolts you can't/don't want to replace, have a tub of grease next to you and put a little bit on the bolts/nuts before you re-asseble, good for anotehr 25 yrs....

Thanks, tools are also another major consideration for a job like this. I've been looking at ratcheting spanners as I'm sure, despite their quite high cost, the effort saved is well worth the money - especially with the amount of bolts I will be encountering!!

[Mo Murphy]

Thanks a lot, I've just placed an order with Namrick for a couple of mixed packs of HT BZP nuts and bolts. Is it wrong to get excited about nuts and bolts?!!

No, nothing wrong with that at all

Mo

[Somethingwitty]

No, nothing wrong with that at all

Mo

Ratcheting spanners v useful, although I've only got 13 and 17. 10mm prob also worth it although really a normal combination spanner and ratchet / sockets are fine. If you've not got a 1/4 inch ratchet and sockets I'd get one - cheap and much easier and less tiring to wield than a 1/2 inch or even a 3/8 - clearly don't lean on it but I use mine almost exclusively now for anything 13mm and less (use a spanner to loosen initially.

WRT to corrosion, get yourself some DURALAC - its a very yellowy green about 6 quid a tin and you coat bolts, joining surfaces, washers etc with it - prevents electrolytic corrosion between dissimilar metals (ali/steel!) and is widely used on aircraft. Really good stuff - google 'Elise Parts' or similar.

[ninjagreg]

Ratcheting spanners v useful, although I've only got 13 and 17. 10mm prob also worth it although really a normal combination spanner and ratchet / sockets are fine. If you've not got a 1/4 inch ratchet and sockets I'd get one - cheap and much easier and less tiring to wield than a 1/2 inch or even a 3/8 - clearly don't lean on it but I use mine almost exclusively now for anything 13mm and less (use a spanner to loosen initially.

WRT to corrosion, get yourself some DURALAC - its a very yellowy green about 6 quid a tin and you coat bolts, joining surfaces, washers etc with it - prevents electrolytic corrosion between dissimilar metals (ali/steel!) and is widely used on aircraft. Really good stuff - google 'Elise Parts' or similar.

Thanks for the advice on the DURALAC, I'll def get some before I start.

[rusty_wingnut]

Did my chassis swap in 2.5days on my own. Body off in one hit no messing about, only bolts I replaced were the M8 x 25mm on the rear tub mounting bolts and the rear shock bracket bolts.

Good idea to soak everything with diesel before hand and worth buying a selection of jubilee clips

[Disco-Ron]

Did my chassis swap in 2.5days on my own. Body off in one hit no messing about, only bolts I replaced were the M8 x 25mm on the rear tub mounting bolts and the rear shock bracket bolts.

Good idea to soak everything with diesel before hand and worth buying a selection of jubilee clips

I'd be interested in how you went about it, i plan on doing mine over xmas, how did you lift the body?? i have bought another pair of bulkhead/windscreen brackets to drill right through, make some lifting eyes, and use a piece of 50x50 thickwall tubing under the rear floor for a lifting point at the rear, add one telehandler, and hey presto...... then swap everything over, and reverse the above........LOL.... sounds easy!

[Disty]

My supposed "few weekends" chassis swap turned into a 3 month fiasco! This was partly because everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) was crusted with thick rust. We ended up rebuilding both sides of the front axle (swivels, housings, hubs and discs) as well as a whole host of other stuff. Now my rear tub won't go back on becuase it's so crusty.

If you need to do a chassis swap, I'd be worried the same might be true for you.

I hope you do get it done that quickly though!

[rusty_wingnut]

I'd be interested in how you went about it, i plan on doing mine over xmas, how did you lift the body?? i have bought another pair of bulkhead/windscreen brackets to drill right through, make some lifting eyes, and use a piece of 50x50 thickwall tubing under the rear floor for a lifting point at the rear, add one telehandler, and hey presto...... then swap everything over, and reverse the above........LOL.... sounds easy!

I did it with nothing more than an overheard gantry and chain block, the engine crane (which you will need for lifting enigne and tranny as one!) and an old oil drum

I lifted the bonnet off and removed the front panel, both front wings were still connected, I think I roped the bulkhead mounts through the engine bay to save the wings and then used the engine hoist as a leveller on the spare wheel carrier (my back door was knackered and survived) then used the oil drums to prop the rear tub while I used the enigne crane to swap transmission etc.

I think I could do it quicker than I did, I spent some time setting up my X arms and making those fit along with the springs etc. A simple like for like swap can be achieved even quicker.

I think I only disconned the chassis and engine electrical harness from the bulkhead, pulled the clutch slave cylinder out of the gearbox (left it bled ready to refit) undid the gear levers and hand brake, drain rad and removed that and intercooler. and Undid the brake feeds from the bulkhead (2 lines?)

Very little work, then obviously undid the body mounts, realised I had forgotten the gearbox electrical harness and lifted the body off

I need to dig the pictures out of the process, all of it easy with a bit of scaffold, some clever thinking and not opening the doors while the body was up in the air

I changed all of it myself, had very little help from my old man, my work mates were stunned when it drove back into work on Monday morning

[ninjagreg]

Buy a metric BZP party selection or two from Namrick, should be a good start although you may find some shorter ones (M8 / M6 x20 ish) would be useful.

Received my order from Namrick and would recommend them to anyone else who is looking for quality nuts and bolts. reasonably priced and very fast delivery.

[ninjagreg]

I did it with nothing more than an overheard gantry and chain block, the engine crane (which you will need for lifting enigne and tranny as one!) and an old oil drum

I lifted the bonnet off and removed the front panel, both front wings were still connected, I think I roped the bulkhead mounts through the engine bay to save the wings and then used the engine hoist as a leveller on the spare wheel carrier (my back door was knackered and survived) then used the oil drums to prop the rear tub while I used the enigne crane to swap transmission etc.

I think I could do it quicker than I did, I spent some time setting up my X arms and making those fit along with the springs etc. A simple like for like swap can be achieved even quicker.

I think I only disconned the chassis and engine electrical harness from the bulkhead, pulled the clutch slave cylinder out of the gearbox (left it bled ready to refit) undid the gear levers and hand brake, drain rad and removed that and intercooler. and Undid the brake feeds from the bulkhead (2 lines?)

Very little work, then obviously undid the body mounts, realised I had forgotten the gearbox electrical harness and lifted the body off

I need to dig the pictures out of the process, all of it easy with a bit of scaffold, some clever thinking and not opening the doors while the body was up in the air

I changed all of it myself, had very little help from my old man, my work mates were stunned when it drove back into work on Monday morning

Thanks for the advice, definitely food for thought. If you have any pics of the process I would be v interested in seeing them.

[Disco-Ron]

I did it with nothing more than an overheard gantry and chain block, the engine crane (which you will need for lifting enigne and tranny as one!) and an old oil drum

I lifted the bonnet off and removed the front panel, both front wings were still connected, I think I roped the bulkhead mounts through the engine bay to save the wings and then used the engine hoist as a leveller on the spare wheel carrier (my back door was knackered and survived) then used the oil drums to prop the rear tub while I used the enigne crane to swap transmission etc.

I think I could do it quicker than I did, I spent some time setting up my X arms and making those fit along with the springs etc. A simple like for like swap can be achieved even quicker.

I think I only disconned the chassis and engine electrical harness from the bulkhead, pulled the clutch slave cylinder out of the gearbox (left it bled ready to refit) undid the gear levers and hand brake, drain rad and removed that and intercooler. and Undid the brake feeds from the bulkhead (2 lines?)

Very little work, then obviously undid the body mounts, realised I had forgotten the gearbox electrical harness and lifted the body off

I need to dig the pictures out of the process, all of it easy with a bit of scaffold, some clever thinking and not opening the doors while the body was up in the air

I changed all of it myself, had very little help from my old man, my work mates were stunned when it drove back into work on Monday morning

Very interesting, so i could potentially save myself the cost of the telehandler, as i work for a bulider and i'm doing the swap while he's away over xmas, i'm sure i could persuade him to let me borrow a load of scaffold tubes and clips....... afer-all, he won;t be using them will he...LOL! Be good to see some pics.......