leon_81 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I'm lost as to what to do now with my friends 200tdi - we can't get the bloody thing to run. I'll start from the top... The original 200tdi died a painful death, so we got a replacement engine from a fire damaged disco (body fire not engine) pipes etc were melted but that was all the fire damage on the engine. As it was mostly in unknown condition, we used the intake and exhaust manifolds - inc turbo off the original engine Also the oil pump/filter housing and lift pump and diesel injector pump (basically took the replacement engine down to bare bones) Then did a cambelt change and fitted it back into the engine bay Now it's all back togther and turns over ok, we have diesel at the injectors and power to the glow plugs - but it refuses to start We even tried tow starting it, and it almost went - but still just about refuses to kick into life So what could be stopping the stupid thing from starting? I'm no mechanic and as such am at a loss as to what to check Any help or suggestions welcome! Cheers, Leon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davek0974 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Injection pump timing not spot on?? AFIK if it's got fuel and will crank without bending pushrods etc, the cam/crank timing should be ok but if it won't fire, maybe the pump timings a tad off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Sounds like you've got the timing wrong to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Attryde Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 As you have fuel I would suggest checking the timing, especially as you have fitted a new cambelt. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon_81 Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 I'm certain the crank/cam timing is bang on - triple checked the timing marks before closing the front up The injection pump is the only thing I can think of, but have no idea how that works tbh. How would you check it's set up correctly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Given how cold it is at the moment, my first 'non-starting' check would be to see that the glowplugs are all working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyb0y Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 That crossed my mind.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmiebrumie Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Check the stop selonoid on the injection pump hasn't become damaged or stuck shut during being disturbed, ask me how I know John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon_81 Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Thanks for the suggestions so far everyone... Couple of questions - apologies if they are stupid ones (but as I said I'm not a mechanic) How do I check the pump timing is ok? Do we need to take the front of the timing chest off again to do this? We've cheked for power to the glow plugs and they're the ones from the original engine (so they did work) but how do we test them to be sure they're ok still? Where would we find the stop solenoid on the pump, and how do we check it? Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davek0974 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 AFIK, well on a 300tdi anyway, there is a small cover over the pump drive pulley on the front cover. Whip that off, gett the crank timing pin in, then see if the pump pin can be slipped easily into place. Might have to take fan off for access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fozsug Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 http://forums.lr4x4....showtopic=14285 Stop solenoid is on the back of the injection pump with a single wire going to it Have you tried a little sniff of Easy Start to get it to start? Only use a little Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiWhite Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 X3 on the stop solenoid. Make sure it has 12v with ignition on. You will hear it click with the key turned and a head in the engine bay. You can pull it out of the pump, remove the rubber plunger and spring and refit the solenoid body to rule out the solenoid altogether. You'll have to stall it to stop the engine.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 You shouldn't need the glow plugs to get it going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon_81 Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Ok, we'll check for a click on the injector pump solenoid - a nice easy one Still need to know how to check the pump timing though if anyone can explain? fozsug - thats the guide I used when we changed the cam belt - I'm thinking the issue could be the pump, as we used the one off the original engine - so I guess it's possible it wasn't set in the correct position when removed if thats possible? When I changed the cam belt, I turned the crank until the timing marks lined up and put a bolt through the pump sprocket to lock it off then swapped the pumps over - still with the pin in the pump we fitted... Does that mean in theory it should be set correctly, or would the pin fit through the pump 'face' in more than one position? Sorry for all the questions but I've never encountered an injection pump before! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmiebrumie Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Ok, we'll check for a click on the injector pump solenoid - a nice easy one Still need to know how to check the pump timing though if anyone can explain? fozsug - thats the guide I used when we changed the cam belt - I'm thinking the issue could be the pump, as we used the one off the original engine - so I guess it's possible it wasn't set in the correct position when removed if thats possible? When I changed the cam belt, I turned the crank until the timing marks lined up and put a bolt through the pump sprocket to lock it off then swapped the pumps over - still with the pin in the pump we fitted... Does that mean in theory it should be set correctly, or would the pin fit through the pump 'face' in more than one position? Sorry for all the questions but I've never encountered an injection pump before! Right, now your going down the same route as I did, has the pump's selonoid got an immoberliser in it ????, my money says YES, if it has you might notice different wires I had to smash mine off with a hammer & replace it with a new one & that solved mine my 'new' engine came out of a burn out as well. Hope this helps John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamC Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 You say that you're getting fuel at the injectors which would suggest that fuel is getting past the stop solenoid so that's unlikely to be the problem. I would also rule out glow plugs, the glow plugs on my 200tdi haven't worked for years and it still starts even in the coldest weather without any problems. As others have said it sounds like a timing issue. I haven't removed the pump on a tdi but I swapped one on a perkins prima and that was bolted through slotted holes to allow for fine adjustment, you would physically rotate the pump slightly which would have an effect on the timing. The tdi probably has a similar set up, you really need a dial gauge to set the pump properly once removed/refitted but if you can move the pump slightly and get it to fire up it may confirm your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davek0974 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Still need to know how to check the pump timing though if anyone can explain? fozsug - thats the guide I used when we changed the cam belt - I'm thinking the issue could be the pump, as we used the one off the original engine - so I guess it's possible it wasn't set in the correct position when removed if thats possible? As i said above... AFIK, well on a 300tdi anyway, there is a small cover over the pump drive pulley on the front cover. Whip that off, gett the crank timing pin in, then see if the pump pin can be slipped easily into place. Might have to take fan off for access. Also, if as you say, you have fuel to injectors, it cant be the stop solenoid. My money is on the timing, needs to be spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon_81 Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Great, thanks everyone. There is indeed a small round cover that comes off the front of the timing case infront of the pump pulley. There are 3 bolts through a big washer type thing with slots for adjustment - I didn't want to touch it just incase! Will have a look at it over the weekend Is it a case of try and get a pin through, and if it doesn't fit straight in, then adjust slightly until it does? Leon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davek0974 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Generally yes, it should go in with just a gentle wiggle Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon_81 Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 BREAKING NEWS!!! I managed to get it started - and it runs great - a little smokey, but I think it will clear when it's had a bit of a run... Looks like a combination of a loose banjo type fitting on the top of the injector pump and the timing of the pump being out - some minor adjustments and a bit of easy start and it fired into life - and now starts and stops under its own steam - totally over the moon So thanks everyone for all the suggestions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fozsug Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Well done, good news! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyb0y Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Another one for the forum success storys - section.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmiebrumie Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Now aint that a great feeling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon_81 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 Well he tells me that it's stuggling to start now - apparently sounds like a flat battery? But it's the battery off our friends 90 200tdi which was fine... so I think there is something still not 100% - almost like there is a lot of resistance somewhere I'll get over and take a look tomorrow - will clean up all the earths etc and see if that helps at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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