Tractor oil, can i use it?

[hobson]

We've recently had a delivery of 'general purpose' engine oil for the tractors which is 10/30w, seeing as it works out about £1.75 a litre and is therefore a lot cheaper than the stuff i'd get in Halfords, can i use it in a 1995 300tdi defender?

I asked the local agricultural engineer and he said;

"well, they're both diesel, both have turbos, and it's hardly a Ferrari is it? should be fine!"

Haynes recommend 15/40w, so is there a big difference?

[Les Henson]

One of my customers is a farmer and he's been putting that same grade in his 200TDi Disco for years. Engine still runs sweet as a nut.

Les.

[hobson]

Done a bit of reading and from what my feeble brain can work out, the numbers are the temperatures the oil can work in so;

10/30w = -10c - +30c

(please correct me if i'm wrong!)

i was also thinking that at that price i could change it more often anyway if needed...

[Bowie69]

Yes, you're wrong

10/30 is the viscosity of the oil, it does determine the range you should use it in, but the numbers bear no relation to the temperature in celcius

Good reading here:

http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

and Wiki on the subject :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil#Grades

It shouldn't matter in all honesty....

Have fun

[sgnas]

The only potential problem is with a lower hot viscocity the engine may not build up enough oil pressure when hot.

I had a temporary problem on my TD when one of the oil cooler pipes was kinked/restricted.

When the engine was worked hard and got hot the oil pressure light flickered. Once the pipe was replaced, and the oil was cooler, the light remained off.

[bob86]

If its the universal32 engine/hydraulic/gearbox type stuff. Some engines I've used it in like to drink it but its cheep enough to just keep topping them up.

[dirtyninety]

We run a fleet of new, New Holland tractors and I've been using the same engine oil in all my landrovers, including TD5's.

[FridgeFreezer]

Can you post up something more detailed (ACEA numbers or whatnot) from the label, my mate works for an oil co who manufacture this stuff so he should be able to give the lowdown.

[hobson]

If its the universal32 engine/hydraulic/gearbox type stuff. Some engines I've used it in like to drink it but its cheep enough to just keep topping them up.

Sounds about right, the landowner said it was a universal oil that can be used as hydraulic stuff too, as far as overheating goes, it shouldn't be a problem, i rarely do any motorway mileage and towing of heavy stuff, most of my driving is pretty short distance and i drive like an old lady anyway!

My wife and i like to do the odd expedition around europe, but we've nothing planned this year and if we're doing that i'd do a full shakedown anyway...

was just hoping it might save me a bit of cash on overpriced oil!

I'll have a look on the barrel and see what info's on there and post that up too.

all i can see is this:

Shell, Harvella - T universal tractor oil

batch number: 10091919g46101may09

10w 30

I can't see the sides as it's wedged in between the fert spreader and stump grinder...

[hobson]

And now i have that info i've found this:

A high quality 10W-30 universal oil for agricultural use

Harvella products from Shell are STUOs (Super Tractor Universal Oils) and are designed to be used in a very wide variety of applications in farm machinery. Where specified by the manufacturer, the oil is equally suitable for use as an engine lubricant, transmission oil and in hydraulic and power steering systems. Harvella oils protect components from wear and corrosion and give excellent performance throughout the life of the lubricant.

Harvella T 10W-30 meets the following specifications: API Service Classifications: CF-4/SF, GL-4 (Low speed, high torque requirements); US Military: MIL-L-2104D; CCMC: D-4; Ford: M2C-159B; Massey-Ferguson: MF M1139/M1144; Mercedes Benz: 227.1 (Meets requirements): New Holland: 82009201 (Meets requirements); John Deere: JDM J27; Caterpillar: CAT TO2; ZF: TE-ML 06.

[farmerboy_y2k]

As a general guide, super universal ag oil (like the one you have) are suitable for turbo engines and will be fine in a tdi - i wouldn't use it in a td5. Universal ag oil isn't suitable for turbo engines.

[lrfarmer]

i use the shell Romula 15/40 in the engines of my land rovers and tractors

and harvella in the backends

[FridgeFreezer]

Reply back from my mate, it's erm, comprehensive!

Quote:

[the additives in the oil are] supplied by either me, or my equivalent in one other company in the world. So you've come to the right bloke. In Shell's case, they take a bit of both. This spec corresponds to our competitor's product, but the advice would be much the same in either case.

Right, first let's do the viscosity grade.

10W30 is definitely thinner than a 15W40. The xxW bit refers to low temperature properties (the lower the better for staying fluid). The second bit (the 30 or 40) refers to viscosity at 100C. These are the codes used by engine oils. Gear oils have a similar sounding naming system, so you'll be familiar with 80W90 gear oils. But these two systems are not actually related to each other, which means that a 10W40 and 80W90 could actually have quite similar viscometric properties.

If you want more details you can find it here;

For engine oils; http://widman.biz/English/Tables/J300.html

For gear oils; http://widman.biz/English/Tables/J306.html

...anyway, it depends on whether a 10W30 would be Ok for a Landy. Check the service manual. I'd imagine newer ones would be fine with this visc grade but older ones might not. Mind you, I think Shell Harvella also comes as a 15W40 or a 10W40 (certainly other STOU marketers offer this), so if it's too thin, he could buy a thicker version.

Then to the STOU type of oil. They are fluids designed to go into every part of a tractor; the engine, the hydraulics, the transmission (whether it's auto or synchronised), oil immersed brakes, final drives, some axles etc etc. So they're pretty handy to have around on a farm instead of lots of different pails of oil. It's also quite handy, as Mr farmer can also use the same oil for his Landy and for Mrs Farmer's Volvo. ...or at least they used to be able to.

The trouble is that as engine requirements become more demanding and transmissions become more sophisticated, trying to meet all of it with one fluid becomes ever harder. So the level of engine technology by modern standards is fairly basic; that's the API CF-4/SF bit of the letter spaghetti. The C stands for Compression, the S for Spark, and therefore shows the level of Diesel / Gasoline engine performance this fluid meets.

You can also get STOUs that go up to API CG-4, if you need one extra level of engine performance.

Again, here is where your mate checks his service manual to see what spec level he needs. Newer Landys will demand more I'm sure. This may be fine for more venerable machines.

As you rightly say, these fluids can also be used for other stuff. Most of the spec numbers are essentially saying that they've been checked out for multi-purpose use in tractors and work well (hence mention of John Deere, Massey Ferguson, Ford, etc). More relevant to Landys is the GL-4 capability, i.e. for its use in gear applications. These lubes are fine for wherever GL-4 is required. Are the Landy transfer cases GL-4?

It also works in tractor synchronisers, so *may* be OK in Landy manual gearboxes - though the particular friction characteristics required by Landy gearboxes may or may not be compatible with STOUs. Anecdotally, I've heard it works well in Subarus and in Mazerattis! But that's not a technical recommendation. Either way, you're unlikely to do any harm to your gearbox. The worst that would happen is the shift-feel would become a bit rough, but you could change the fluid for something else in that case.

For hypoid gear axles (i.e. where GL-5 is needed), this probably won't be beefy enough for the job. It doesn't meet the requirements of GL-5. There is some evidence to show that in tractors, once they've been fully run-in, that you don't really need a GL-5 and can use this type of fluid in its place.

However, I'd be reluctant to do that, particularly in a Landy Off-Roading, where the application is quite severe. So I really wouldn't use it in place of GL-5.

You can also use it for hydraulics (though it will emulsify water, rather than drop it out) and potentially even for power steering, though perhaps it's a bit thick.

One final thing. There are two types of universal oil; STOU and UTTO. The names ("Super Tractor oil Universal" and "Universal Tractor Transmission Oil" - aka THF = Tractor Hydraulic Fluid if you're a 'merkin) don't really tell you anything. But STOUs are designed to go into every part of a tractor including the engine. UTTOs are designed to go into every part of a tractor EXCEPT the engine. So don’t put a UTTO into your engine. It'll be far too low on dispersants and you'll have combustion deposits dropping out very quickly.

On to your last question about what the difference is between these types of fluid, it's down to the type of additive chemistry involved.

Engine oils use ZDDP (zinc dithio dialkyl phosphate) as the anti-wear, with dispersants and detergents to keep everything clean, plus a sprinkle of anti-oxidants, anti-foam, corrosion inhibitors to balance it all. ZDDP is good stuff for anti-wear, is fairly mild on copper and steel corrosion and helps keep oxidation in check. STOU is based on very similar technology, balanced for a wider range of applications, with friction modifier added to cope with oil-immersed brakes (as found in tractors).

GL-5 gear oil is designed for high-pressure hypoid gears, so needs excellent extreme pressure agents and anti-wear. This uses sulphur / phosphorous chemistry instead of ZDDP. The S/P chemistry is much more aggressive, which allows it to provide the protection to the gears, but is much poorer in terms of oxidation and can be aggressive to copper, brass, etc. Because it doesn't need to cope with combustion, like an engine oil, there is no need for the high levels of dispersant / detergents.

GL-4 is a much less severe application than GL-5, so could be achieved with either type of chemistry. If you were to buy a GL-4 only lube, it would probably be the same chemistry as the GL-5 type, but with about half as much additive (so it protects the gears, but won’t attack the metals as much).

Specific synchronised gearbox oil could be almost any of the above. It needs to protect the gears, but also have the right friction properties. Different manufacturers each do this in a different way.

Hopefully that starts to answer your question.

[Phil B]

I use Morris ring free engine oil in mine, it's good enough for the John Deere and perkins eng so it should suit the 300 as said tho use stou grade as this is designed with engine in mind....

[seriebil.dk]

Hi

I have been running 15W40 Tractor oil in my 2,5 N/A for years now, even used the Bio versions for some time, runs fine and it is cheap ;-)

same goes for gearbox oil, just make sure you get GL-4 for the older gearboxes, as the GL-5 eats the cobber and bras. here also the bio versions have worked out fine, and when using this the oil leaks are less of a worry - it is bio degradeble Try telling that to the in-laws after leaving a nice spot of 80W90 on the new drive...