RichardAllen Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 For some time I have been looking for a roof tent that can be used on the ground as well as the roof. I am not keen onHannibal style tents and Maggiolina style popup's on the grounds of weight, and cost as against almost all modern ground tents. And of copurse, you cannot use them on the ground. I saw a pic of someone putting a Quechua popup tent on a Disco roofrack. Close but no cigar. I need space for two adults and two kids. From a recent purchase, I can confirm that even if you built a foldout roofrack big enough, it would be extremely difficult to erect a Quechua style 4 man popup tent on a roof, and far harder to take it down.. This leads me to Vango Airbeam. This a new style of tent where poles are replaced by tubes you pump up with air. The idea is pretty much new for consumer tents, I believe, though it has been used by the military for hospitals etc for some time. Foldout your custom roof rack, peg down the tent, blow the airbeams up with the on-board compressor and job done. OK you still need to build a custom roofrack and have some kind of on-board air, but it might just work. Has anyone tried them yet , especially as both a roof and ground tent. Regards Richard PS Compared to normal tents airbeams are currently pricy, but if the idea is any good and they take off I am sure they will come down in price a bit PPS I have no relationship with Vango other than as a satisfied customer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirocco Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Air poles? seriously? do you have links? RTTs are well built, that is why they are heavy. They have full size mattresses to, adding to weight. I dont see the point of putting a ground tent on the roof. Just pick your camp spot as you usually would. going back to your original enquiry. You can get legs for the maggs so they can be used on the ground. Also look at the Oasis RTT which can be used on the ground to. If you were serious about using a ground tent on the roof I would only recommend a 3-4 season tent. Putting a pop-up on the roof is just plain stupid. Your more exposed to the elements up there and you need a proper tent to deal with inclimental conditions. The UK does not have the most predictable weather. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardAllen Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 Variable weather is why I am keen on Vango - several years of very varying camping experience. I want a roof tent so we can sleep anywhere (hotel car park, layby, off-road etc), and I want a ground tent so we can leave the tent at a site to go exploring, and I don't want two tents because I want to keep weight low, and am sure with a bit of clever thinking I can have my cake and eat it. Airbeams are at http://www.vango.co....rbeam-tent.html I have had a good look at a Velocity 200 and Infinity 600 erected, and they look very well made and sturdy. The web and our local camping shop both indicate that the very large ones have to be blown up first and then the floor straps tightened, rather than the other way round. The web reports one or two punctures/leaks to the beams. For me either this is a problem which will be fixed or Vango will withdraw the range in a year or two. Right now, they are just a bit too expensive for me, but I reckon I could build an aluminium fold out roof rack for a Velocity 400 and get the family in it easily. Once I can weld aluminium that is ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirocco Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Rich, the infinity 400 weighs nearly 20kg! ok, 18.5 but add a matress etc. add your rack. It soon mounts up (no pun intended). If your going to do it, go velocity. they are all wider than a standard defender, so i assume your going to extend out over the sides. Have you looked at the Myway RTTs? 35kg. 3 roof bars. may even be worth getting 2 for comfort. I just cant see a ground tent working up there, sorry. maybe on a calm summer day, but when it gets rough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardAllen Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 Have you looked at the Myway RTTs? 35kg. 3 roof bars. may even be worth getting 2 for comfort. Assuming I can make a very lightweight roofrack cheaply (al tube frame with stressed peforated al sheet welded on), Myway RTT is some 3 times the weight and 3 times the money for what looks like half the capacity. As for the robustness of a Velocity 400, that it what I am hoping someone on here will try before me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgasmic Farmer Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Inflatable poles were around on tents in the eighties. Didn't catch on then. So nothing new really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Yes, certainly seen one before - in fact the great wheeze at the time was letting the air out while the occupant was sleeping. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I'm afraid I can't see it working. I'd spend my money on a decent ground tent. Most roof tent owners seem to have them for show Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJN Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I have a myway roof tent. Its not for show it just works. Yes they cost money but its the last tent I will every buy. It stood upto 65mph winds in Iceland two years ago and all the rain wales could throw at it this weekend!! Off to Sahara with it later in the year. BUT If you dont like roof tents you dont like them. I would suggest having a really good look at the tents at Billing and then go and talk to owners that are camping with them. As for a ground tent on a roof rack as was said fine when it sdry and no wind but otherwise ....dubious. They have pegs for a reason. TJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardAllen Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 I have a myway roof tent. Its not for show it just works. Yes they cost money but its the last tent I will every buy. It stood upto 65mph winds in Iceland two years ago and all the rain wales could throw at it this weekend!! Off to Sahara with it later in the year. BUT If you dont like roof tents you dont like them. I would suggest having a really good look at the tents at Billing and then go and talk to owners that are camping with them. As for a ground tent on a roof rack as was said fine when it sdry and no wind but otherwise ....dubious. They have pegs for a reason. TJ Thanks for the input. I spent a good couple of hours at Billing last year looking very closely at every roof tent I could find and talking to whoever I could. My conclusion is that roof tents are technologically decades behind ground tents and all pretty much the same heavy costly foldout design (excepting the Maggioline pop-up type). Where are the lightweight alloy or composite poles/frames, where are the modern lightweight waterproof materials, what about internal lantern points, storage pockets, insect-proof ventilation screens, reinforced chafing points the list goes on. I was massively underwhelmed by every roof tent I saw when considering camping with two adults and two children. I also want to be able to setup for four people, leave everything and go on day-trips. This precludes a roof tent only approach. As for ground tents having pegs, these are of course pre-requisite for their performance. Our local tent shop (attwoolls) must have 30 or 40 tents put up in their showroom. They have a system where, instead of pegs, they use tapes which they then staple to the carpet. My custom roofrack, will likewise have pegging points built in at the appropriate points to which loops and guys can be attached to secure the tent. Regards Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dlander Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Thanks for the input. I spent a good couple of hours at Billing last year looking very closely at every roof tent I could find and talking to whoever I could. My conclusion is that roof tents are technologically decades behind ground tents and all pretty much the same heavy costly foldout design (excepting the Maggioline pop-up type). Where are the lightweight alloy or composite poles/frames, where are the modern lightweight waterproof materials, what about internal lantern points, storage pockets, insect-proof ventilation screens, reinforced chafing points the list goes on. I was massively underwhelmed by every roof tent I saw when considering camping with two adults and two children. I also want to be able to setup for four people, leave everything and go on day-trips. This precludes a roof tent only approach. As for ground tents having pegs, these are of course pre-requisite for their performance. Our local tent shop (attwoolls) must have 30 or 40 tents put up in their showroom. They have a system where, instead of pegs, they use tapes which they then staple to the carpet. My custom roofrack, will likewise have pegging points built in at the appropriate points to which loops and guys can be attached to secure the tent. Regards Richard As someone who regularly uses,has slept in, and lived in tents since I was eight, the best all round tent material is canvas not man made materials hence why most popular roof tents are expensive but they keep out light as well as the weather. Aside from the tent/ground debate, the vango airbeam has to use its origional pump because the valves wont accept normal airline fittings, also the beams are only inflated to 5psi (from their data sheet) which most off the shelf compressor systems will not be able to cope with as it is too low. While Vango say it will cope with gusts up to 75mph, I would like to see the test where this figure was calculated. 5psi is not much to provide regidity across an arch. Oh and if anyone is interested I have an easyawn touring roof tent on my camel and we use it most weekends we can get away, and for all our holidays in all weathers. In fact when we got married the new wife when asked if she wanted to spend the first night of her honymoon in a hotel or in the roof tent chose the rooftent. Its all a matter of personal taste but for us it works great. Hope what you decide works for you all the best Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardAllen Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 I did check the airbeam air valves and the look like standard BSP fittings, but I am not certain of this. And yes getting down to 5 psi to pump up an airbeam without bursting it may be a challenge. The problem I have with the fold-out type roof tents (apart from high-up weight and price) is that there are 4 of us, so we need two tents. JasonG110 solves this by having one on the truck and another on the trailer. For the moment, I am trying to avoid the trailer route, though Jason's logic is persuasive. The airbeam concept is I believe tried and tested with things like army temprorary hospitals etc, but as applied by Vango it is, in my view unproven. It will be interesting to see as time progresses how well they come out in reviews. The larger ones have already shown some problems, but I have not seen an in-the-field review for the Velocity 400, the one that would suit us. Regards Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve King Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I'm afraid I can't see it working. I'd spend my money on a decent ground tent. Most roof tent owners seem to have them for show Mo I tend to agree.Let's face it even the smallest roof tend will have an adverse affect on MPG (and to a lesser degree stability). However, roof tents do look cool I must admit, they certainly have the bling factor!! In practical terms there are limitations. A ground tent can be left in-situ whilst you go off somewhere, a roof tent will have to be lowered. I guess one advantage is that you won't have to sort through masses of gear in the back of your LR to get to the tent.... LROI has a feature on roof tents this month that might interest you - some of them are a bit pricey!!!! :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lil_me Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 We looked at probably every roof tent and have decided that unless we do choose to start staying on Tarmac (wouldn't now) we don't need one and the weight issue puts me straight off. Plus loosing so much roof space for one item when touring. We have a dog and 2 kids so we don't have much boot space left for touring. Have you got the option of a normal tent when you're not staying 'somewhere they can't be used' then a roof tent for the others you can take off and store? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 We are in the same dilemma as we are 2 adults and 2 children and do a fair bit of camping. We use 2 ground tents. One large (Robens) family tent and a Quecha popup. The Robens one is used if we are staying somewhere for 2 nights or more and the Quecha if only stopping the 1 night. Roof tents for us are out of the option for several reasons. Price, they are expensive. Space, bit crowded for 4 Space, not much room for sitting around when it's pouring down, cooking, etc Weight, a lot of weight at the top of the vehicle. Difficult to store when not in use. Nedds to be packed away everytime you want to use your vehicle. So for around £600 we have 2 tents that fit in the vehicle, don't weigh alot, give us ample space and shelter, easy to store, and serve their purpose well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Like most things in life I think it is down to your preference/travelling style etc and there is not right or wrong answer, I have been camping for many years and probably done most sorts except caravanning (which has never appealed to me) including simple bivi sleeping to our family 8 man tunnel tent oh and roof tents!! If we were going camping to a camp-site for a week or so I would have used the family tent having inside space shade shelter somewhere to get changed sit at night is a necessary balance for me to keep the wife and kids happy. However I have found that if we are travelling on overland type trips large tents are simply impractical as setting them up every night is just to time consuming, and often the ground is just not suitable for a big tent, clearly you can use a smaller tent but again trying to find suitable camping grounds setting up camp unpacking all of your bedding etc can be a pain, also I do like to get a good nights sleep and although when required can sleep on a thin camp mat I prefer to sleep on something more substantial. So when travelling in this style I find roof tents to be great I don't think they are just 'bling' although with everything some people just buy them 'because' and use them once however this is great by me as I picked both my tents up for 1/4 of the original price, I find October-January is the best time to buy them when the 'because' buyers realise that although they used it at Billing or Peterborough it's just not going to come in useful in Sainsburys car park and causes problems getting into the car park thought the hight barrier!! Also don't be put off by little things like ripped external covers as these can easily and cheaply be replaced with lots of spares out there. As mentioned above I have two roof tents one on the Landy and a second on my trailer I have owned the Landy one for 6 years now and wouldn't hesitate to buy another as I did for the trailer, depending on how you set them up it takes between 5-10 mins packing them up takes around the same time so they are not the 60 second wonder that some people claim, but I am never in that much rush when wild camping I will often not set the tent up until I am ready to go to bed just in case I find the site unsuitable or someone turns up to tell me we can't camp there, clearly we weren't camping just stopping for a meal. I have tuned the camping for me first with the addition of an awning for the Landy this was added a few years ago it has the sides but provides the shade/shelter that is often required for a lunch stop afternoon nap just to give you that bit of afternoon shade, and then as things changed by the addition of the trailer and a bigger awning. The idea is we can set up as little or as much as we need for example we don't always use the little rods to hold off the sides but just leave them buckled down. Now for the negative bits they are heavy but if you are going overland you are not exactly travelling without luggage you also need somewhere to store them when not using them they can't be shoved in the loft and leaving them on you Landy is just not an option this bit is a bit of a pain getting the tents on and off, I plan to leave the one on the trailer but just cover it up the one on the Landy I have been working on a bracket system as I need to turn it around from front opening to opening over the side as with the bull bar/lights the ladder just comes out too far hence the change the bracket system will hopefully make bolting it onto the rack a quicker activity than the current hour things take. Jason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protoprincess Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 With 2 adults and 2 children your options are limited. I personaly cant be arsed to climb up and down and up and down on to a roof rack especially with bad knees. I do like the idea of a roof tent thou - the simplicity and ease of use - brill. But having a toddler to add in to the picture - nightmare. So we have a canvas army tent. heavy - yes but cozy, weatherproof, lots of space, heated with wood or petrol burner, travel cot, adult beds.... perfect for us What about something like this ..? I think they are brill Especially with upgraded suspention (and as you take a trailer this can go on top of it?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lil_me Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Jason have you got any photos of the trailer with the roof tent please? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Here is Jason's trailer build thread. Lots of pics here. HTH Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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