jules Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 I think it really depends on the conditions you want to compete in. I am still not convinced about stability of independant suspension in relatively low speed severe axle articulating stuff. The Hummer on the ramp episode and watching Haflingers and Pinzgauers getting all tippy in places where a beam axled 4x4 just walks through is what sticks in my mind when independant suspensions are mentioned.Bill. I would agree for racing I prefure inderpendant as it can be capable of much biger impacts at speed but for slow stuff I would stay with beam axles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 I'll lay down the gauntlet for rog and say that theres not a vehicle on here that is as stable as the rock rod. And i seriously doubt there's one that can climb as well and is more manouverable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Pinz and Half's are pretty high COG with relatively short suspension arms, Im thinking more of the prerunner styles, I think it would take some grooviness with the suspension design but theres got to be some mileage in exploring the possibilities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Im thinking more of the prerunner styles, Yeah exactly, that's more the type of indy suspension I was thinking of. Sounds like that little buggy performs well. I like the spec - 4WS, Bmer engine etc. Not so sure about the 'look' (just my personal opinion). Any idea where the wheel-arches came from...? Size rubber is that? It's hard to get a sense of scale. Smallish? Just to throw in some awkward tech Qs - anyone know the arm length on a Pinzy, how about the track width and flex specs? Something tells me it'll be a fairly useless geometry (sounds like it...) - probably to preserve interior space I guess. Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 anyone know the arm length on a Pinzy, how about the track width and flex specs? not off hand, but I can probably find out... Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Articulation will still be not as good as beam axles though.Bill. It gets about 12" per corner (independent of course) and can be "cross axled" but now its got an LSD I'll lay down the gauntlet for rog and say that theres not a vehicle on here that is as stable as the rock rod.And i seriously doubt there's one that can climb as well and is more manouverable. Credit where credits due (to Neil Whitford) This thing can climb, and climb and then climb again! Had a few mods since Neils build, relocated shock mounts, LSD, stronger front driveshafts, Seat moved back, suicide door! And as for side slopes - bring it on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Pinz and Half's are pretty high COG with relatively short suspension arms, Im thinking more of the prerunner styles, I think it would take some grooviness with the suspension design but theres got to be some mileage in exploring the possibilities Yes the swing axles are very short, and the camber change is pretty scarey. I hope you can come up with something out of the box that works well under most conditions. Thanks for posting the UAZ axle cross section BTW. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 usual story though Bill, too many ideas and not enough ££ got to get the 2007 car sorted and then maybe I can get back to the wierdness B) we really really need a sponsor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 usual story though Bill, too many ideas and not enough ££ got to get the 2007 car sorted and then maybe I can get back to the wierdness B) we really really need a sponsor Here's an idea to toss in to the ring. I started to build a 4wd VW beetle some years ago but then met my wife to be and the project didn't get completed. Anyway for the front end I used a Kombi twin transverse torsion bar assembly, and instead of bolting it to the chassis as per normal, I mounted it on a centrally pivoted bushing with a longditudal control arm on each side.I bolted a Suburu rear diff, concentric with the centre pivot to the transverse assembly. I figured that way I would have an independant front end with unrestricted articulation.It's time for bed and the rest of the story is too long winded to repeat here. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lara Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Go and look at the US rock crawling boys, no point in us lot re-inventing the wheel on this forum cos they have already bin there an done that! some of their stuff is truly inventive but nothing beats the beam axle guys at the top of the tree! Horses for courses of course! They would not be ideal in all situations! but compared to most of our Landy stuff they would just laugh and call it a transit section Lara. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 thats true Lara - but rockcrawling isnt my cuppa - beamers tick most of the boxes for me but playing devils advocate and having a nose at different ideas is all part of the fun case in point would be the frog - it hammered the beamers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 ... and having a nose at different ideas is all part of the fun case in point would be the frog - it hammered the beamers Absolutely. Jez - you mean 'the frog' in Tel-Aviv with the custom tube framed single seater & 'bar' steering, or that funky little green monster in Lagoda? Got any tech on that green thing? I can't even see where the major components fit in... (Where do his legs go? He doesn't kneel down to drive it does he?!?). Just looks impossibly small, but I've only seen a couple of pics. Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 spy shots of the frog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 lovely, what engine? Does it have diffs or is it all locked up? Interesting piece, but I cant see you living out of that for 10 days! Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Nice. That's a great build, completely different, I love it. But you see what I mean? It's like the Incredible Hulk's electric wheelchair. Is the guy an amputee? Where do his legs go??? Any idea how the power is transmitted to the wheels? Has he got a ring & pinion in each corner or something? Gearbox / transfer? Great truck. Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 given enough determination you can live out of not a lot - not quite cadillac levels of personal space though and it only had one cup holder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Interesting piece, but I cant see you living out of that for 10 days! Daan - if you think that's small, you should see the size of my apartment... Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Im a bit slow off the mark but I think Ive sort of sussed it out drive wise not so much the hulks wheelchair Al, more like a go ped wheelbase is soooooooooooooooooooo short Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Ok, how about hydraulic drive? Either he's centered the pivot point of those arms around a driveshaft or he's go something with non-fixed geometry, like high pressure lines to hydro drive units in the hubs? That would also explain the impossible driveline length. B) Man I'm having SO many ideas today! C'mon, don't keep me hanging on - fess up, what is it? Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Hydro static isnt fast enough and has monster heat management probs - this thing goes like stink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Hydro static isnt fast enough and has monster heat management probs - this thing goes like stink Right then. [Puts on deerstalker, lights pipe...]. Lets look at the evidence. There are only pictures of it rolling downhill and going along a river, therefore, it's propellor driven! Case closed. Ok, no. I can just about see how you could fold a driveline into the space under the driver's bum. (Unless that's where he has stowed his legs...). Needs a reversal of direction, but that's ok. The only way (it appears) to get drive to the wheels is down those arm jobbers. If it's not hydro (still think it's worth pursuing), then it must be shafts or chains in the arms. What's confusing me (along with everything else) is that he made those fat tubes that connect the 'arms' to the wheels at an angle. WHY? Where's Watson when I need him? ... oh yeah, extracting that violin... Giz a clue! Is it driven by 'The Force'? Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 [Doctor Evil /on] Bwah ha ha haha hahaha [Doctor Evil/off] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 I reckon he uses the engine and gearbox from a front wheel drive vw pasat (engine longitudinal) or something similar and just have 2 chains to both driveshafts. Lock (weld) the diff and youre done! not sure what gearing it has though. Not sure about his steering. Interesting what the DVLA thinks of this? Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Not sure about his steering. Interesting what the DVLA thinks of this?Daan Never mind that - does he want to sell it? I'm looking for a bigger flat. I'm not seeing any brakes either (still think it's hydro!) ... Ok, yeah, could be based around a transaxle - could even use inboard brakes on the diff output, so that explains that, but with a welded diff / spool and chain drive to all corners, you're really losing any opportunity to steer the thing - I see no pivotty jobbers, so I'm guessing is some kind of differential drive or differential brake system like a tank. A rigid driveline isn't gonna cope with that... My head hurts. I'm liking this thing more and more. Al. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lara Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Quite right Jez, inovation is the name of the game and even if it don't work first time out it's good to try, Chain drive inside side swing arms, shaft drive from ends through tubes to wheels ????? Canted for more ground clearance! Nice jobbie! Wouldn't like to go rock crawing in a rig that short though Where do his legs go? that is the bigger question, Lara. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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