Unimog Axles

[reads90]

Let's run a challenge event where everyone has to run bald Rangemasters - then we'd see who can drive

up for that, learn't to drive and drive off road on a set of bald avon rangemasters , but that was nearley 20 years ago when the avon's were the mutts and it was series 3 diesel

[dirtydiesel]

Couldn't have said it better myself- with this logic the only reasons i can see with not going with portals are a) you don't like how they drive and B) you don't have the lump sum to do it!

have i missed something?

A car that has been properly setup on portals should drive as well as a car on conventional axles.

The only issue is gearing, which is easy enough to sort.

[dollythelw]

John - thats cool, I think its just as much fun in bog stock car pootling around the farm - so Im with you on that, Ive got as much respect for Joe no toys as captain catalogue - its not the bling, its the person that earns respect in my eyes

the idea of being nipple-deep in a frozen lake is a little strong for my blood. I'll be staying at my own level and dragging myself 10ft back to dry land (slooooowly) with my Milemarker.

Let's run a challenge event where everyone has to run bald Rangemasters - then we'd see who can drive

Nipple deep ? neck deep ! eeeeeeeeeek nothing wrong with a Milemarker

I used to race Supermoto, half tarmac/half shale tracks - slick tyres, 100+mph sideways on a bike is a laugh so a bald tyre car comp kinda appeals

Thanks Bogmonster - its appreciated

Portals (I think) arent for everyone, but for those that choose to do it then live and let live, wether they are self fitted or paid for, if you're gonna do it just think hard before you commit and dont do it for the wrong reasons

[reads90]

mmm

I my opion you have to know how far you can go with the truck before you break it. I would like to say i prided my self on knowing the limits of my old 90. I could push it to the limit with out breaking it. But knew that beyond that point it would break . Some called me a ruff ar*s but i did not break anything in a challenge , but was going hard all the time.

All this talk about Portals , i recon i could compete against a truck with portals, in a truck with out, and think i was not at a disadvantage. It is all about driving and taking the right line ( i mean in the past i have driven a truck on BFG farther than someone could drive a truck on Simex). And when you come to punch events , its about thinking oputside the box and not following everyone else. I have got some seamingly difficult punches in the past with ease by this method .

But to sum up , Portals are not unbreakable, give them to me for a weekend and i will break them. You can after all break anything on request , but you have to know how far you can go with what you have. This is the problem with cheque book off roaders , they spend the money and think they have an indestruckable truck and then go out and break it. I mean you buy somthing that can take 500 BHP is great but that is not 500BHP coming one way and the tyres stuck the other way. If you have top Landy axels or portals both won't take that sort of carp. Even if the portals or tough landy axels dont break it just passes it down the line, Ie prop if you are lucky, gearbox/ transfer box if you are not.

So in my mind i would stay with landy axels with a few toys in them and take it from there.

BTW in Aus, well where i am , Portals are no real use (from what i can see at the moment, but i am going to a Winch challenge at Cruser Park the weekend after next, and i will be able to find out better there, but at the moment none of them are running portals.) , we have dust not mud so there are not some many ruts that need the clearance of the portals.

BUT i would love to see a section in a winch challenge event where you have a standard seris on sats where you would have to drive it around a course and find who has the best time. This would really sort out the skill of the driver and who relies on their toys in thier trucks

MY old 90 was great but out side the challnge scene it was boring, you would go to a site and it would do everything. I got a disco on BFG all terrains and had the most fun i have had for years. Trying to get that to do what the 90 can was the greatest fun i have had in a long time

[dollythelw]

so does that mean we (the UK portal lads) are cheque book offroaders? or somehow lacking in driving talent? Im confused, or are you saying you personally can break anything?

I'm guessing you've had a set - what castor did you run and on what wheelbase? were they mogs, volvos, portal teks, UAZ, Fraziers, Hursts~? what did you manage to break and how did you do it? its good to get tips - and its always interesting to hear of potential weakspots

[reads90]

so does that mean we (the UK portal lads) are cheque book offroaders? or somehow lacking in driving talent? Im confused, or are you saying you personally can break anything?

I'm guessing you've had a set - what castor did you run and on what wheelbase? were they mogs, volvos, portal teks, UAZ, Fraziers, Hursts~? what did you manage to break and how did you do it? its good to get tips - and its always interesting to hear of potential weakspots

NO i have not had a set, all i am saying is that nothing is unbreakable. If it has been made by man it can be broken by man. Put enough power though it and stop it the other end and it will break. And anyone can can break something if you want. But as you comment "or are you saying you personally can break anything?" then YES. It is just some talk on here and about portals in gernal is that they will not break , and i am saying that they will

Portals lads are not all cheque book off roaders and i think you will find that i did not say that

as for lack of driving, look around at a challange scence there a a few people who have lack of driving, and do not know there trucks

[dirtydiesel]

Sorry mate but that's bo***cks.

It'd take you more than a weekend to break a set of mogs.

And as for passing on the load, any back loading is halved because of the portal gearing.

And as for being on a level playing field when competing against a portaled motor you are so so wrong, when something on portals has been through a special stage or into a bunting'ed off punch and had to winch a non portaled truck is on it's belly.

Trust me, i've tried to follow portaled trucks in my g when it was on conventional axles, there's nothing quite like watching the car ahead of you dig 18" deep ruts when there's no way around them.

And as much as driver skill and picking your line helps, when there's only one route through and it's been f**ked by the big boys, portals seem awfully attractive.

Have you ever competed against a portaled motor? (or even watched one work for that matter?)

As for not being able to have fun in a proper truck you just need to find deeper nastier places to play or find some like minded similarly equipped friends to play follow the leader with, always works for me .

[reads90]

Sorry mate but that's bo***cks.

It'd take you more than a weekend to break a set of mogs.

And as for passing on the load, any back loading is halved because of the portal gearing.

And as for being on a level playing field when competing against a portaled motor you are so so wrong, when something on portals has been through a special stage or into a bunting'ed off punch and had to winch a non portaled truck is on it's belly.

Trust me, i've tried to follow portaled trucks in my g when it was on conventional axles, there's nothing quite like watching the car ahead of you dig 18" deep ruts when there's no way around them.

And as much as driver skill and picking your line helps, when there's only one route through and it's been f**ked by the big boys, portals seem awfully attractive.

Have you ever competed against a portaled motor? (or even watched one work for that matter?)

As for not being able to have fun in a proper truck you just need to find deeper nastier places to play or find some like minded similarly equipped friends to play follow the leader with, always works for me .

OK so what you are saying is that in a 6 ltr V8 (with supercharger) in a Rangie challenge truck. weighing 2.5 ton. you could put portals on and 44' tyres and then do dounuts on tarmac with all tyre lite up and not break the axels. Same thing deep in mud with all 4 wheels stuck.

a few years ago i used to go and watch a mate competing in the Eurpoe truck trailing and he had a Mog , and he was breaking axels in it.

So all i am saying is that they will break. as you have just said. But (correct me if i am wrong) the way this thread sounds is that you get portals and you nned to forget about your axels breaking again as portals don't break. all i am saying is they will if you push it hard enough

[MogLite]

OK so what you are saying is that in a 6 ltr V8 (with supercharger) in a Rangie challenge truck. weighing 2.5 ton. you could put portals on and 44' tyres and then do dounuts on tarmac with all tyre lite up and not break the axels. Same thing deep in mud with all 4 wheels stuck.

a few years ago i used to go and watch a mate competing in the Eurpoe truck trailing and he had a Mog , and he was breaking axels in it.

So all i am saying is that they will break. as you have just said. But (correct me if i am wrong) the way this thread sounds is that you get portals and you nned to forget about your axels breaking again as portals don't break. all i am saying is they will if you push it hard enough

Of course anything will break. Especially with you behind the wheel

If Pirate4x4 is to believed Mog 404' are good for 500bhp and 44's and thats on rocks.

I don't reckon you'd ever give a set any trouble in mud.

But they do need some maintenance, portal boxes have to be torqued properly, and there is a right and wrong way to run the portal boxes, and of course they could be 50 years old and worn out.

I'm only planning on runing about 200bhp, until the nitrous comes along. 404's will be fine with that. If I wanted 500bhp, I'd go 406 axles.

If you wanted to go 1000bhp and drag race it on tarmac - U1300's.

Its an evolution thing - the Mog 404's are a 1950's axle - Series I timeline. Yet they getting compared to stuff that is made out of unobtanium and then cryogenically treated.

It can be debated forever, but suffice to say my axles cost me £200 and about the same again as to go and get them from Germany. Less than the price of one ARB locker. Its not for everyone, but hopefully it will work out for those that choose the path.

Once MogLite is shaken down Ali - I've always promised I'd throw you the keys, and say "Knock yourself out" - I still stand by that

[Astro_Al]

RPR - thanks for the pic mate - truck looks fantastic in it (especially the rear door ). Nice. B)

Reads90 - what you describe isn't actually too bad a loading situation for most Mog axles. Volvos would probably give up the ghost by then, but there are plenty of US V8 (more power/torque than your V6 there) trucks on portals (heavier too) doing 4-wheel burnouts and generally trying to break them with sticky tyres on (more than 44"). I think you'd be suprised what they can stand up to. Remember the torque upstream of the portal box is divided by the ratio of the box itself, so the shafts / diff are protected from big numbers.

Land Rovers and similar vehicles are VERY lightweight for these axles. What was your mate driving? What exactly did he break? I guess it was a 411 / 404? I've yet to hear of anyone breaking a larger Mog axle under ANYTHING. Remember the axles we are have referred to are the smallest there is...

Of course you can break anything, but it sounds to me like you're underestimating their strength. If all you can think to throw at it is a V6 on 44s and 2.5 tonnes, well... meh...

It is certainly the case that if you are marginal on Rover axles you won't be breaking your portals. I'll certainly take the bet that you won't break them in a weekend.

Oh, and portals have been successful in Oz - look at Sam's MogRover.

Al.

[Mark90]

The comments about portals, or any toys (such as lockers, tyres, uprated this that and the other) for that matter, making up for poor driving abilities is all just smoke. Yes there will be situations where a good driver in a bog truck can beat a carp driver in a tricked up portal'd monster, and some where they can't. But the real test of any modification or fancy bit of bling is does it make a difference to someone who CAN drive. Take a none portal'd truck and one with and give them to a person on persons who knows how to use each to it's best and then see which gets furthest.

At least with little tyres and almost standard LR axles I have an excuse for getting stuck, other than poor driving

[filthy boy]

Someone has a job.

He / she makes some money.

Chooses to spend it on a toy (all these trucks are toys).

Why does this eem to annoy some people so much?

It's their money, they didn't mug your granny for it.

Always seems to be the same people going on about "cheque book offroaders".

Can someone explain their problem?

Just live and let live

FB

[dollythelw]

The ironic thing is Filthy that just about all the portal trucks I know (one or two) cost less to build than a reasonable spec 90

life would be dull if everyone was the same, Im just happy people enjoy playing in the mud, Zooks, Landys, portals, non-portals from super talented hardcore non chequebook offroaders to first timers - as long as everyones having a good time and no-ones getting hurt I think its cool

and once again, if you want portals think hard about it, do your research, possibly ask people that have some experience and be prepared for some entertaining public reaction

[bathtub]

I think a lot of you are missing the point or conveniently going around it about Portal!!!

In this country on Challenge events 90 % is i agree knowing your truck & driving it well thats why most of the top 4 teams are running +2" & simex & still doing well .

But thats on the current comps that most sections are either punches & if you have to winch the last 10ft to it so what team work etc wins over the 2 mins lost winching.

Or special sections about 200yds long max with a 20 -30 min time allowance & the same points whether driven in 2 mins or winched in 20.

However B)

Get up a Tommys in bottomless mud with section 1/2 mile long with the same rules & see what Portals big axles & load of power does.

Or as Jez will tell you a forest sestion 4 Km long with deep ruts & tree stumps just between the sections & see if Simex & winching as a good team will help.

Must of you know me & ill be the 1st to admit we had / have a lot to learn about challenge comps in this country & yes i dont mind spending a few quid on the truck.

Yes we havnt won a major event yet finishing would be nice

BUT whose the won that drives the sections most drive around or fail on EVERYTIME not just when the points count!

JBS special section

Muddy truckers we did the bog site on our own & we drove in 11 mins a section no-one else did & 2 other sections in the top 3 fastest time.

AFC last year we were 1/2 point below Paul Wightman & we had a full lenght RRC & no rear winch on it !

Imagine for a minute AFC but a bit bigger maybe Mine or Jez truck with an experienced team no break downs & how far in front do you think it would be to the 90 on Simex guys !!!!!!!!

[reads90]

RPR - thanks for the pic mate - truck looks fantastic in it (especially the rear door ). Nice. B)

Of course you can break anything, but it sounds to me like you're underestimating their strength. If all you can think to throw at it is a V6 on 44s and 2.5 tonnes, well... meh...

It is certainly the case that if you are marginal on Rover axles you won't be breaking your portals. I'll certainly take the bet that you won't break them in a weekend.

Oh, and portals have been successful in Oz - look at Sam's MogRover.

Al.

Cheers for your ans AL

I was talking about a 6ltr V8 supercharged, not a crappy V6

Sams Mog rover is in a differant leaguse and not competing in winch challenges . He is doing rock crawing . Two totally differant things

[reads90]

Of course anything will break. Especially with you behind the wheel

If Pirate4x4 is to believed Mog 404' are good for 500bhp and 44's and thats on rocks.

I don't reckon you'd ever give a set any trouble in mud.

But they do need some maintenance, portal boxes have to be torqued properly, and there is a right and wrong way to run the portal boxes, and of course they could be 50 years old and worn out.

I'm only planning on runing about 200bhp, until the nitrous comes along. 404's will be fine with that. If I wanted 500bhp, I'd go 406 axles.

If you wanted to go 1000bhp and drag race it on tarmac - U1300's.

Its an evolution thing - the Mog 404's are a 1950's axle - Series I timeline. Yet they getting compared to stuff that is made out of unobtanium and then cryogenically treated.

It can be debated forever, but suffice to say my axles cost me £200 and about the same again as to go and get them from Germany. Less than the price of one ARB locker. Its not for everyone, but hopefully it will work out for those that choose the path.

Once MogLite is shaken down Ali - I've always promised I'd throw you the keys, and say "Knock yourself out" - I still stand by that

it was a earley 70's mog

[dollythelw]

ahh now I see the issue - just how much power and torque is your charged 8 putting out??

[reads90]

ahh now I see the issue - just how much power and torque is your charged 8 putting out??

to be honest i don't know. got the engine and bits but not bolted it all together yet

[dollythelw]

What lump is it? what boost are you planning and what transmission?

[reads90]

What lump is it? what boost are you planning and what transmission?

Holden

[reads90]

What lump is it? what boost are you planning and what transmission?

Jez at the moment i am having to start all over again with my challenge truck (Aus quarrentine would not let my old 90 into Aus). Range with V8 holdern engine and supercharger. Reading this post with interest as what to do with my axel. I think i am still going to stick with landy axels. But ony becasue of my thoughts on off roading here in Queensland. and that is dust and not deep mud. But know that the landy axels will not stand it

[dollythelw]

any particular Holden older cast iron 2 valve or Gen 3 LS 4 valve ally block? Im guessing your going to have to go US for the transmission and T case, auto or manual?... is it a centrifugal blower or screw? eaton/vortech/roots? Im just trying to work out potential power and torque and I can point you in the right direction for an axle that wont break - or were you planning on using a rover axle?

whats the winch comps like you will be doing? rock, mud, steep gulleys?

[reads90]

any particular Holden older cast iron 2 valve or Gen 3 LS 4 valve ally block? Im guessing your going to have to go US for the transmission and T case, auto or manual?... is it a centrifugal blower or screw? eaton/vortech/roots? Im just trying to work out potential power and torque and I can point you in the right direction for an axle that wont break - or were you planning on using a rover axle?

whats the winch comps like you will be doing? rock, mud, steep gulleys?

I am hoping to get as close as poss to the 500 bhp , so working progress, as most winch challenge trucks are

In Aus most of the stuff i have seen is dust , steep gullys , power and speed events. Hence the V8 not too much water around here.

Not planing on doing too much rock , leave that to mog rover

[Astro_Al]

Cheers for your ans AL

I was talking about a 6ltr V8 supercharged, not a crappy V6

Sams Mog rover is in a differant leaguse and not competing in winch challenges . He is doing rock crawing . Two totally differant things

Ah - well, that's more like it. It doesn't matter though - you can find portals to cope with the power - just get them from a bigger Mog! If the axle weight worries you, do a hybrid axle with portal boxes and a lighterweight centre section - a Ford 9" is nice and light, for example.

A 6 ltr V8 can be coped with - I'm currently putting together a truck with a Chevy LS-x - so same situation. The 404s will be marginal on it if I use big tyres, but I'm gonna suck it and see. I've got some Mog 416s too, so I guess I'll put together some Mog9s if the 404s 'head south'. It's not hard to find something that'll cope.

Sorry - I thought you meant 'Oz' in general, I know Sam is mostly rocks - mind you Tough Truck isn't exactly pure rockcrawling... Yeah. I dunno about winch challenges in Oz specifically...?

Al.

[Astro_Al]

I am hoping to get as close as poss to the 500 bhp ,

If that's all, what's the supercharger for...?

500 is almost standard - few basic mods see that easily on a 5.7L.

If you're gonna pay out on an s-chgr, aim higher. B) Al.