LED Headlights

[Ben_J85JTY]

I may be missing the point further down, but in the first para it seems that this is refering to a replacement HID bulb in an existing lamp body.

I would have thought that this discussion was more toward the replacement of the whole lamp unit, meaning the refelctors are correct for the bulbs used?

The £1000 plus variants also hold the relevant EU markings etc?

[SteveG]

I may be missing the point further down, but in the first para it seems that this is refering to a replacement HID bulb in an existing lamp body.

I would have thought that this discussion was more toward the replacement of the whole lamp unit, meaning the refelctors are correct for the bulbs used?

The £1000 plus variants also hold the relevant EU markings etc?

Obviously you are missing the point, even if it's a complete unit that is e marked, you'd still need self levelling and headlamp washers to make it legal to retrofit.

[The Badger]

Well, after all this, the easiest thing to do is NOT fit LED or HID, but just fit a kick ass pair of driving lights wired into your high beam wire, on a switch. This is a way easier, legal and gives more light option.

[CwazyWabbit]

..... and being wired to high beam doesn't annoy oncoming drivers

[mmgemini]

Interesting piece of news which seems to contradict what is on here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-16215106

Single filament lams. What you are wrongly calling a bulb. So I have to remove my double filament lamps from my lights.

So I can't use a stop/ tail lamp in my tail lights ?

Back to the original Phillps QI single filament lamps.

The way I understand ONLY tungstone filament lamps can be use in ALL light fittings. Side/ tail, side and indicator.ALL LED lamps are illegal as retro fit.

[Superpants]

Going back a few points- must (&shall) is generally used in legislation and standards to mean a statement is to be complied with, without exception. I think the confusion comes here as the document refered to is guidance. As there no law explicitly stating that the same standards have to be met, then the recommendation cannot be stronger than a should.

As an aside- if you are prepared to spend £1000 on headlamps, then a little bit more expense to install a levelling system and washers shouldn't scare you off....

[CwazyWabbit]

My confusion comes from dealing with RFC documents (specify network protocols etc) where at the beginning they actually define the use of words as follows.

1. MUST This word, or the terms "REQUIRED" or "SHALL", mean that the

definition is an absolute requirement of the specification.

2. MUST NOT This phrase, or the phrase "SHALL NOT", mean that the

definition is an absolute prohibition of the specification.

3. SHOULD This word, or the adjective "RECOMMENDED", mean that there

may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances to ignore a

particular item, but the full implications must be understood and

carefully weighed before choosing a different course.

4. SHOULD NOT This phrase, or the phrase "NOT RECOMMENDED" mean that

there may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances when the

particular behavior is acceptable or even useful, but the full

implications should be understood and the case carefully weighed

before implementing any behavior described with this label.

Of course that is not relevant to DFT documents but it is why I got confused...... sorry about that and muddying the waters.

[mmgemini]

Let's sit back and think of whay is actually needed.

When I worked delivering cars. The MAIM beam that I used was DIP...That is the beam that 99% of UK driving is done on..

SO

As the dip is controlled by the parabolic and lens design you can only throw the light a certain distance down the road.

All that you can improve for the dip is brighter light......

[The Badger]

My point is, if you want more light, when you actually need it... so think about the above point.

Is fitting LED main lamps better, or just not worth it when you gonna turn on the main beam and extra spots anyway.

For my situation its better to have spots, maybe in the UK, just brighter LED or HID lights?

[mmgemini]

Where in the UK for normal driving do you manage to get off dip beam. Dip is the mainly used beam. That's where you should have the best light.

Incidently. What can be done about those blinding LED lights that the Mercedes and Audi fit as well as the numberplate LED lights ?

[Ben_J85JTY]

Obviously you are missing the point, even if it's a complete unit that is e marked, you'd still need self levelling and headlamp washers to make it legal to retrofit.

From the first para

"In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon"

I would read that as if your fitting HID lamps (Bulbs) to original lenses designed for Halogen?

[mmgemini]

I've just been speaking to VOSA at Marsham Street.....

Retrofit headlights are legal. That's the complete light unit.

Fitting LED lamps {bulbs} to any other light. Parking or stop/ tail is illegal.

[CwazyWabbit]

I've just been speaking to VOSA at Marsham Street.....

Retrofit headlights are legal. That's the complete light unit.

Fitting LED lamps {bulbs} to any other light. Parking or stop/ tail is illegal.

Did they mention leveling or cleaning?

[Mo Murphy]

I didn't think Mike was looking for a job Cwazy !

Mo

[CwazyWabbit]

[mmgemini]

I didn't think Mike was looking for a job Cwazy !

Mo

No you daft bugger I'm retired.....

No mention about LED headlight cleaning. The way he spoke as long as they'e E marked you can fit the complete unit.

[wack61]

The only way I'd ever spend the kind of money they're talking about for led headlights would be if they came with a 5 year guarantee

I just don't believe the claims they all make about how long they'll last

[Porny]

To clear up a few points - especially as I am a supplier of LED headlamps....

The JW Speaker headlamps are approved under ECE R112 which originally covered filament lamps and was amended to include LEDs. HIDs have their own specific regulation.

The JW Speaker lamp is a complete replacement unit carrying the same approval (Regulation 112) as the OEM unit so the LED unit complies with RVLR 1989 and can be retrofitted.

The luminous flux of these headlamps is below the threshold which requires levelling and washing therefore it is not required.

The approval was issued by the VCA and the MOT aspect verified by VOSA in the UK.

HIDs luminous flux exceeds the threshold so requires levelling & washing and certain LED lamps may also fall under this possibly one mention in this thread!

The warranty is four years, from an OEM point of view various manufacturers have been fitting LED headlamps since 2008.

The unit on Amazon at the beginning of this thread is not ECE approved, is not as bright and has half the warranty in terms of rated hours.

It was launched on the open market before the JW Speaker lamp but has never been ECE approved and even after improvements to the beam pattern it will probably not be ever ECE approved.

Since their European launch the price has dropped notwithstanding UK VAT has gone up, as with all technology I am sure the price point will continue to be eroded as time passes.

Ian

[CwazyWabbit]

Cheers for the update Ian, very much appreciated.

It makes sense that the need for cleaning and levelling is based on the level of light output.

It's a pity though that none of us lot on the forum could find any definitive info online about it from the powers that be, it would be nice to have something to wave at an official should you be questioned about them

Thanks again

[Tom1809]

Okay this has confused me slightly as there was a post about led bulbs anywhere on a vehicle. So does that mean I cant fit led nas style rear stop lamps, indicators and reverse lights and front indicators ?

Sorry to go off topic slightly

[mmgemini]

Tom

I spoke to VOSA in London last week. From what I gather..

LED side/ tail lights are alright.

What is not alright is LED's into Land Rover or other side/ tail lights......I'll see what happens on my MOT in April/ May

[Tom1809]

Ah brilliant, makes life easier as no more blown bulbs to replace so will be going on my project.

Cheers

[adafish]

crackin lights have some in my 110DC, ....

[wesley68]

i think that would look totally cool. i agree with some member here. great job guys!

[gbmkb]

I have read with interest the postings in this thread.

With regard to HID headlamp conversion, I fitted a dual H4 conversion to my 1994 Discovery about 6 months ago.

The light output is far superior to the old Halogen lamp system with only a very slight bluish tinge. (The lamps are rated at 6000K).

Street signs show up clearer and in the snow and in fog, the lamps are spectacularly good.

The lamps show up far more clearly to other road users as well.

I did have a bit of an issue adjusting the laps so that the dip beam was more or less back to where it was with the Halogen bulbs (checking them against a wall when approximately 20 feet back after having noted where the beam with the halogens lit the wall).

I had to adjust the lamps slightly down and to the left to get the beam at the same position as the Halogens.

Also, the "kick up" on the left is not as pronounced with the HIDs as with the Halogens.

However, the Discovery has recently (mid March) been through the MoT with no problems at all.

The tester must have realised they were HID lamps as many (most) HID lamps don't come up to full brightness immediately, but take around 2-3 seconds to come on fully.

Also, he must have seen the ballast units when doing the under bonnet checks.

However, when tested with the beam pattern device they use, the tester seemed happy that the beam pattern on dip and main were within the prescribed limits.

The Discovery is fitted with headlamp washers but, obviously, not self leveling.

This, however, did not seem to present any problems for the MoT test.

I have also been fitting replacement LED bulbs to side, tail/stop and indicator lamps to many vehicles (cars, motorcycles and trailers) for some years now with no issues what-so-ever in respect to MoT testing, or ever having been stopped on the road by the police.

I like LEDs in the stop lamps as they react virtually instantly, whereas tungsten bulbs take up to half a second to come on. (If you follow a car with tungsten stop lamps but an LED centre brake lamp, you will often notice the centre lamp coming on before the side ones).

At 60 mph that equates to 44 feet - i.e. the car following up your backside has 44 feet more road distance to react to you putting the brakes on.

The newer SMD type LED bulbs are far brighter than the older "standard" LED types and come in a variety of shapes often with side facing LEDs so fill the entire lens of the lamp rather than giving a "spot" of lamp as the earlier units tended to do.

Again, the MoT tester did not have an issue with the fact that I had LED tail / stop lamps and the only comment he made was that one of the front side lamps (also LED) had a bit of a bluish tinge to it. I had replaced the other side as the first LED bulb had a manufacturing fault causing some of the LEDs to go out or flicker slightly. The replacement was OK in his opinion, so I'll change the original "bluish" one to match.

They are far brighter than the standard side lamps and consume much less power. (typically less than quarter to half of a watt rather than the 5 watts of a tungsten bulb) and generally last much longer - up to 100,000 hours (or 11 years if left on 24 hours a day continuously).