adamplatts Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Hi I am a new disco owner. Just bought a 1997 300tdi off ebay for the better half to get up and down to her horses. Bought it with (apparently) 1 months mot and understanding that it needed new exhaust and the sill welding. Thinking this would not be to bad I have had the exhaust replaced and booked the MOT. It was done today. Spectacular fail 13 different areas of welding required + a couple of slightly easier mech part to replace. I have never welded before (although I bought a clarke gasless mig welder a few months back its still in the box) The garage have said the welding will take them 3 days and want £800 for that before they look at the other points. I am shell shocked. Its my own fault I should have not fallen for the first disco I came to that was close to home on ebay. I am looking for any advice. Should a novice even attempt welding on a car? Any tips welcomed Thanks Ad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 You can learn to weld - not on the vehicle, but rather on scrap metal that may be lying around or whatever. Garages do tend to charge an awful lot for welding, so you will save a lot of money by doing it yourself. Alternatively, post your general location and perhaps someone on here can recommend somewhere that may be a lot cheaper. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 You certainly can do it yourself! You will need a reasonably good gas Mig welder, a decent sized garage with plenty of working/lay-apart space, and time! I have just completed a complete rebuild of my 1992 Disco 1 and now have a completely rust free, fully refitted vehicle. I had never used a Mig welder before and spent a week developing basic skill and technique. It is not so hard as it first seems. Aim to cut out corroded areas and replace with new steel. Never patch on top of the rubbish! There are plenty of well priced repair panels and weldable fittings available for the Disco 1. I stripped the interior completely, and removed the outer aluminium panels, first. Only then can you see the scale of the problem, and have access to repair properly. Look through the excellent articles in this Forum on repairs & rebuilds. Good welding!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrRob Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Or scrap it and put the engine and box into a Defender Seriously though lots of places do repair panels = YRM Metal Solutions, Paddocks, AL Services in Poole (floor rails), Craddocks etc. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Everyone has to start learning to weld some where but as above, on the car isn't the best place to start. Take a look here: http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/mig.htm Don't wish to make you feel even worse but a Clarke gasless Mig isn't the best machine out there... If its one of the ones that you can convert to gas I recommend you do so, the wire you use in "gasless" mode is awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco_al Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 have a look through http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=70746 and see what can be done. the welding repairs were done over the august bank holiday weekend. have still got the other side and inner wings to do yet, as well as the rear x-member, but she's coming off the road soon for a chassis swap and some serious rust chasing. with a landrover anything is repairable, you can learn most of the skills yourself, or check your local college for an evening course in welding and you'll never look back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UkFoxy Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The best thing you can do is find another local diso owner who can weld. From experience you'll find much more rot once you start stripping it. I personally wouldn't recommend welding it yourself as even though it may look good to you it probably won't to the MOT man. Get someone else to do it for you & hopefully they won't sting you on price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UkFoxy Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Where are you from AD?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamplatts Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Hi Thanks everyone. I think I will have a go on some scrap and see what happens. We are in Pensax, Worcestershire if there are any enthusiasts who could get me pointing the right way in my area it would be brilliant. I bought a mig welder a little while back. It's not even got a plug on it yet it's a Clarke Mig 145 gas or gasless it wasnt very expensive and I have no idea if it will be very good as I have read differing reviews The thought of treating the disco as a project and getting stuck in is really appealing but also pretty daunting. We don't have the cash for the garage though so its as good a time as ever to give it a go I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamplatts Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Here are some photos of the damage. Nicley marked in yellow by the MOT man. Whats the general consensus. Salvageable or scrap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamplatts Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 And Some more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamplatts Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Where are you from AD?? Hi I am from Pensax, Worcestershire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 That is a lot of rust If you can afford it, I would save yourself the heartache and get them to do the work fo you in all honesty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 To be honest I don't think £800 is unreasonable for that amount of work. Sorry Don't forget that the holes you can actualy see will only be the tip of the iceberg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamplatts Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 To be honest I don't think £800 is unreasonable for that amount of work. Sorry Don't forget that the holes you can actualy see will only be the tip of the iceberg. Hi I dont think it's unreasonable either but it's money I don't have. I do have. Mig welder though. I guess it's nothing ventured nothing gained. I will have a go. At worse this car will become scrap and I will have lost some time Cheers Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 If it comes to that Adam don't scrap it. Break it for parts (it's parts are worth more than the car), that way you should get back what you paid for the truck in the first place, probably more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 £800 is more than it's worth, so in that respect it's effectively scrap. As stuck says - the smart money says break it for parts. TDi engines will always sell, wheels, tyres, axles, gearbox etc. have some value too and bodywork & interior trim bits are often sought after as they get broken / damaged. HOWEVER, if you want to learn a few things and salvage your car it's not beyond saving. Chassis is an easier place to start as it's less fiddly and thicker so easier to weld / more tolerant. As has been alluded to above, your welder is fairly poor quality and that won't help things - bad welders give bad results even if you have the skills. You want to upgrade it to gas, and for the amount of welding you've got on your hands I would definitely go to BOC, open an account and get a small bottle of Argoshield as the disposable ones will bleed you dry very quickly and run out when you least want them to. Having a proper bottle will give you plenty of headroom for practicing. Alternatively / as-well-as, you could look round for a nearby forumer to... a) Give you some lessons b) Do some of the work c) Let you use / borrow a decent welder d) Loan you a bottle of argoshield e) Let you rummage in their scrap bin for lumps to practice on http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/ is a good resource, also have a read through the tools & fabrication forum here for advice & pictures. Edited to add: Also look at http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/improving-your-skills/mig/, some excellent guides & articles on there. You'll also want to get an angle grinder, a party pack of 1mm cutting discs, and a selection of wire wheels, 80-grit soft-pads and grinding discs. Life is so much nicer, and the result so much better, when you attack it properly, cut all the rot out, and take it back to bare shiny metal beforre starting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igol Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I have to say theres a bit of a defeatist attitude in this thread, ok the boot floor is probably shot as well, the rear cross member will have gone too and the plastic shields are probably hiding a load of big holes in the front wheel arches...but its a disco isnt that what you/we expect?? I've a cheap nasty little gasless mig and my tame welder hates it; still does the job and thanks to watching my step son at it I'm pretty good now too. Theres plenty of replacement panels out there for the old bus, look at it as a learning experience and enjoy the perverse world of disco fettling, nothing will scare you after that. My mothers fiesta came back with a MOT fail and welding needing doing due to 'major corrosion' the hole in the chassis was a joke after owning a disco and a simple bit of welder play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igol Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Oh and as FF said; get a grinder, your going to need it for pretty much every job you'll ever have to do, possibly with the exception of pumping up the tyres.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamplatts Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 £800 is more than it's worth, so in that respect it's effectively scrap. As stuck says - the smart money says break it for parts. TDi engines will always sell, wheels, tyres, axles, gearbox etc. have some value too and bodywork & interior trim bits are often sought after as they get broken / damaged. HOWEVER, if you want to learn a few things and salvage your car it's not beyond saving. Chassis is an easier place to start as it's less fiddly and thicker so easier to weld / more tolerant. As has been alluded to above, your welder is fairly poor quality and that won't help things - bad welders give bad results even if you have the skills. You want to upgrade it to gas, and for the amount of welding you've got on your hands I would definitely go to BOC, open an account and get a small bottle of Argoshield as the disposable ones will bleed you dry very quickly and run out when you least want them to. Having a proper bottle will give you plenty of headroom for practicing. Alternatively / as-well-as, you could look round for a nearby forumer to... a) Give you some lessons b) Do some of the work c) Let you use / borrow a decent welder d) Loan you a bottle of argoshield e) Let you rummage in their scrap bin for lumps to practice on http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/ is a good resource, also have a read through the tools & fabrication forum here for advice & pictures. Edited to add: Also look at http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/improving-your-skills/mig/, some excellent guides & articles on there. You'll also want to get an angle grinder, a party pack of 1mm cutting discs, and a selection of wire wheels, 80-grit soft-pads and grinding discs. Life is so much nicer, and the result so much better, when you attack it properly, cut all the rot out, and take it back to bare shiny metal beforre starting. Thanks. Off to the shops forma new angle grinder tomorrow. If there is anyone local reading this who would be willing to help me out showing me some basics it's would be great. I live next door to,a great country pub so lunch and refreshment would be on me Ad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamplatts Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 I have to say theres a bit of a defeatist attitude in this thread, ok the boot floor is probably shot as well, the rear cross member will have gone too and the plastic shields are probably hiding a load of big holes in the front wheel arches...but its a disco isnt that what you/we expect?? I've a cheap nasty little gasless mig and my tame welder hates it; still does the job and thanks to watching my step son at it I'm pretty good now too. Theres plenty of replacement panels out there for the old bus, look at it as a learning experience and enjoy the perverse world of disco fettling, nothing will scare you after that. My mothers fiesta came back with a MOT fail and welding needing doing due to 'major corrosion' the hole in the chassis was a joke after owning a disco and a simple bit of welder play. Hi. I am led to believe the boot has been done but I expect when I lift the carpet I will discover some more work :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamplatts Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 What would I need to spend and on what model / type if I upgraded the welder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Adam, The welder you have will suffice as long as you don't try and run it in gasless mode. It wont be great but it will do what you want it to with practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Best thing you can spend money on is Argoshield and an auto-darkening helmet, and a lot of practice. Those three will transfer to a better welder down the line if you ever want to go near one again after doing your Disco. I reckon the 2nd thing you learn after learning to weld is learning to politely decline requests to weld up rusty cars for people, it really is a tedious job. 0.8mm wire will make life easier if your welder will take it, it kinks less easily. Oh and *always* turn the gas off when you're done, solenoids in welders are not to be relied upon to stop the precious stuff escaping overnight. When you buy a grinder, keep the receipt, if you're using it hard on a big job they can die inside the warranty period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Adams Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Just to add my comments to the already great advice here. Firstly, Get yourself the following: 4 1/2 " angle grinder course sanding discs (a few of these), metal cutting discs and maybe a metal grinding disc. a good quality pair of welding gauntlets good quality welding overalls, make sure they are suitable for welding and will not catch fire. a good powder fire extinguisher. a quality auto darkening welding mask (do not get a cheap fixed one as you will regret it) a welding hat (wear it with the peak backwards) it will stop you burning your hair when working under the car. A bottle of argoshield light from somewhere like BOC, I would also look on ebay for other companies as BOC charge a yearly rental and it can get expensive if you are not using it. Depending on the thickness of the material being welded I would say you will probably get away with .6 wire for most of the jobs you are doing. And last but not least, Practice, Practice, Practice. Always safety first and I would strongly advice you always have a second person (with a welding mask on) standing as fire watch. These jobs are certainly achievable if you take it steady and get a feel for welding before you start. The only information I can give for the actual welding is: always make sure you are welding CLEAN metal to CLEAN metal, testing the wire speed and voltage setting on a scrap piece of similar thickness before you start. The quality of the weld can be judged to a great extent by how it sounds while you are welding. Hope this helps. Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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