coachman Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Good morning every one ,the sun is shining her indoors is going shopping ,IT IS SHOW TIME now where are the garage keys . My enquiries re LPG came up with several `outfits` ,a mine field really and quite disconcerting to find so much rubbish and rubbishingg out there . The one that comes up often to be a good one is Tinley Tech, and very informative, helpfull ,( talking last night 22.00 hrs).But only to find at moment of commital is that they DO NOT install ,I am gutted . I wanted a faultless system ,faultless company with faultless creditations, I find TT through this FORUM ,ready to pay ,and then sorry WE DO NOT INSTALL . Is there anyone out there prepaired to do it for me .at Wakefield . coachman . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Have a look on lpgforum.co.uk, you'll find plenty of recommendations there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 LPG is a piece of cake to install, the instructions from Tinley are clear, why not have a go yourself? Takes a couple of days for a first installation. If you get an installer to do it, you're looking the thick end of £1500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I would say easy to fit if you get a good kit but not so easy to tune, do they offer a service where you can install and they setup? According to tinley tech website this is a map of their approved installers, have you tried one of them? http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/images/Inst-map.pdfhttp://www.tinleytech.co.uk/images/Inst-map.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 LPG is a piece of cake to install, the instructions from Tinley are clear, why not have a go yourself? Takes a couple of days for a first installation.If you get an installer to do it, you're looking the thick end of £1500. ^^^what he said^^^ Very straightforward. What type of system have you been looking at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 The biggest hassle is dismantling and removing the intake manifold so you can drill the holes into each intake-tract, tap them if necesary and fit the eight gas-injectors; some people say you can do this using a drill and a tap coated with grease to stop the swarf dropping into the engine but I'd really not trust it and don't like the idea of a handful of aluminium-swarf going down the ports into the cylinders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 If you go for a draw-through system, even with a BLOS, there's no need for inlet manifold drilling, which is a bonus, but not likely to be quite as efficient as a proper sequential system. Tuning a sequential system is pretty easy too, you get the software with the kit, run through the setup procedure a couple of times and then possibly tweak the idle and acceleration enrichment a bit, and it's done. You could farm this out to a specialist once you have it running if you really want, I wanted it checked it was running OK once and it just cost me £40. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 If you go for a draw-through system, even with a BLOS, there's no need for inlet manifold drilling, which is a bonus, but not likely to be quite as efficient as a proper sequential system.Tuning a sequential system is pretty easy too, you get the software with the kit, run through the setup procedure a couple of times and then possibly tweak the idle and acceleration enrichment a bit, and it's done. You could farm this out to a specialist once you have it running if you really want, I wanted it checked it was running OK once and it just cost me £40. My only experience of systems that use venturis, vapourisers and similar has been replacing the intake-trunking and airflow meters after one too many backfire! Horrid, cheap, primitive things that turn out expensive: a friend of mine spent 18 months trying to get one of these set up on his Lexus and just gave up in the end and told the "manufacturer approved" installer to remove it. There was a susequent small-claims-court case (which he won). A new, proper system (with line-pressure injection of gas direct into each intake-port) cost him something like £3000 but once set up is absolutely brilliant: it even integrates with the Lexus Kilometres-per-litre fuel computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I had one backfire on my old Rangie, that was in a hurry, floored the throttle from cold and started it, no damage apart from the screen on the hotwire AFM, which doesn't make much odds as it was LPG 99% of the time, and doubt it would be noticed on petrol either. It never even backfired when running out of gas either. For more modern engines sequential is the only way, especially something as advanced as a Lexus V8, the Rover however, works very well on a BLOS with a large vapouriser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I had one backfire on my old Rangie, that was in a hurry, floored the throttle from cold and started it, no damage apart from the screen on the hotwire AFM, which doesn't make much odds as it was LPG 99% of the time, and doubt it would be noticed on petrol either.It never even backfired when running out of gas either. For more modern engines sequential is the only way, especially something as advanced as a Lexus V8, the Rover however, works very well on a BLOS with a large vapouriser. The ones I've seen explode have all been the "gas-ring" vapouriser type - when one of them decides to detonate the intake trunking on anything with a flapper-type AFM the results are, let's just say, 'interesting'. The BLOS carb-design reminds me rather a lot of a SU carb, and yes the electronically-controlled versions do work well (a friend has one on his 1970s Mercedes). The Lexus got properly LPGed with a "Prinz" system - which first expands liquid from the tank to gas at a controlled, fixed temperature & pressure (around 2.5Bar) then feeds it through individual electronic injectors. It still has the problem that in cold weather you need to start on petrol because the 'expander' can't stabilise the 2.5 Bar gas at the right temperature/pressure without some coolant-provided heat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 The episode I mentioned was on a gas-ring type, think it really depends on a lot of things other than the gas system, such as valves closing properly, and ignition components up to scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 The episode I mentioned was on a gas-ring type, think it really depends on a lot of things other than the gas system, such as valves closing properly, and ignition components up to scratch. A lot of gas-ring LPG systems miss out what I consider an essential safety-item, a "low-engine-speed" sensing relay. If the engine is not running at at least 500RPM *or* being turned-over on the starter, there should be no possibility of gas-feed to the intake system. This sort of thing has been standard fitment on the likes of Bosch D- and K-Jetronic petrol injection systems since the very-early-1970s. OK, some gas-ring LPG systems have a solenoid on the gas-feed to the vapouriser - but that fails to take into consideration the liquid-LPG that may have been fed up to the vapouriser _before_ the engine stalls [and which subsequently vapourises and fills the intake-tract/airbox with vapour so it can explode the intake-trunk if you get a restart-backfire]. There should be a hard-shutoff default-to-closed valve between the vapouriser and the gas-ring so that unless the engine is turning, nothing combustible gets to the gas-ring. This is basic safety-logic but is usually overlooked - I wonder how many LPG systems also have an impact-sensing fuel cutoff switch (as has again been standard on fuel-injection systems dating back to the 1960s on things like the Triumph 2.5PI) ?? You may think me paranoid: I've seen and documented the fatal effects of a natural-gas explosion in commercial heating-plant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 This functionality is normally built into the switch, feed from a coil negative wire. There should be 3 solenoids in any gas system, tank, filter solenoid, and then on outlet of vaporiser, so the only gas you get is what is in the mixer ring delivery pipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 LPG really doesn't explode all that quickly... If you go for LPG injection, you have even more safety since the petrol fuel cut-off will also kill the LPG injection. I'm not a fan of the single-point LPG systems either, but they do work quite well, and are fairly easily tuned. The injection stuff takes a bit more work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
task Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 My '98 Discovery has done over 70k miles running on LPG with me, it has a single point mixer system that was installed before I got the vehicle, never had any bother that's been caused by the LPG system. I had a few back fires but this was rectified by fitting better plugs/leads. I've just ordered a BIGAS system for the CSK from TT, this replaces the AG SGI system I bought second hand for not much which has never run correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lincsoldbird Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Had 2 Range Rovers on single point LPG, both 3.9s, one did 100k and the other 60k with no problems. Fitted both my self and set them up. I think most off the problems come from bady tuned engines. There are loads of fork trucks out there one single point systems that run all day and don,t start on petrol with no problems. Yes I would not fit one to a Lexus but a Range Rover engine is from the 60,s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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