cotleigh crasher Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Hello again everyone. Well, things have gone from bad to worse here and I'd appreciate some advice/confirmation. The 110 now has a valid (?) MOT, but the lord only knows how. I'll start at the beginning so it makes some sense........ When I took it to the garage after sorting out all the previous MOT woes, the brakes worked fine, there was a fair bit of travel on the pedal but they were powerful and it stopped on the proverbial sixpence. The garage changed the front brake pipes and flexi's and did the re-test, which it passed. They said they had some problems bleeding the brakes and noted on the MOT certificate that the brakes only had 50% efficiency and that there was too much travel on the pedal. Well, the brakes are now absolutely .......I beleive the phrase used on this site is 'ploppy plop plops', An emergency stop is completely out of the question, I'd be quicker sending the brakes a telegram! Also the pedal now goes 3/4 of the way to the floor before anything happens, and if I hold my foot on the pedal with the engine running it slowly goes down to the floor. It doesn't pump up with the engine off, so its not air in the system, and the pedal falls slightly when I start the engine so I presume the servo is working ok, theres a pretty healthy vacuum at the end of the pipe. I phoned the garage and they said 'bring it back and we'll bleed the brakes again', but I really don't want to take it back again, I don't trust them anymore, this whole MOT business has been a right fiasco, it took them 3 days to bugger up my brakes and they messed up my air filter set-up in the process. Another thing, previously when I stopped the engine it used to hiss gently for a couple of seconds, now silence, not even a slight hiss. I'm guessing that the master cylinder has given up the ghost? Anyone any better ideas? Please help, I'm getting close to putting a match under it! if only diesel would burn!!! Ralph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big.Mike Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 When you say "had some trouble bleeding the brakes" go back and ask them exactly what they mean... they shouldn't have left you like this. disgraceful. Front brake pipes are a piece of cake to do and shouldn't cause any problems bleeding, it's a pain in the backside too get the bleed nipples off, you just have too spend some time and do it... take the front wheels off and look for signs that they have tried to get them off, if you find a broken bleed nipple scream blue murder at them... good luck, mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cotleigh crasher Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 I have looked at all the bleed nipples and they have obviously all been undone. I don't beleive they actually had trouble bleeding the brakes, I think they mistook the excessive pedal travel for air in the system, but thats clearly not the case as the pedal won't 'pump up', it just stays soft and ineffective. I've just thrown a small fortune at it and I'm reluctant to take it back to the garage for them to deny any responsibility and just fit a load of new parts and charge me another small fortune for the priviledge. What worries me most is that they passed it with 50% brake efficiency and a pedal that goes to the floor! The brakes passed ok when it first failed on everything else,so I can only think that something has happened to the master cylinder in the process of them changing the pipes. The difficult bit is going to be proving that they caused the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco-Ron Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 I'd be talking to vosa, they worked on the brakes, left them basically dangerous, and then gave kt an mot certificate!! Try clamping each flexi in turn and see what happens, you could try clamping all of them, the pedal should be solid! Also, does it brake in a straight line? Is it possible they used the wrong ports on the master??? Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 It sounds to me like your master cylinder is goosed... I've had it on a couple of vehicles now, you do get braking effort but its right at the bottom of the pedal travel and really rubbish braking at that... Before the master cylinder is changed (easy job) you should make sure that all the snail cams (adjusters) on any drum brakes have been properly adjusted as if not you will also get "more" travel on the brake pedal as there is more slack to be taken up in the system. Mav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickwilliams Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 +1 for master cylinder failure. I did the seals in mine a few months ago but managed to put it back together slightly wrong so it worked when first fitted but ended up with very similar symptoms to yours. Replacement is a fairly easy job even if you are not an experienced spanner wrangler and an OEM replacement master cylinder is not expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cotleigh crasher Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 Thanks guys Its got discs all round, so it isn't adjustment. I also think it is the master cylinder thats given up so I'm going back to the garage this morning to kick up, they should never have passed it like that. The problem is that its my local garage and I don't want to 'burn my bridges' completely, I may need them one day. But I am going to talk seriously to them about their standard of work, maybe get them to supply a cylinder FOC as an apology. Looks like I'm not going away tonight as planned! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Off out you go, get yourself a new master cylinder, fit it, bleed your brakes and go away tonight like you planned. As you have discovered you are the best person to fix your Landy and you're cheap ! Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Isn't it also quite common for the master cylinder to fail as a result of bleeding the brakes? You are pumping the pedal further than in normal operation so could be using part of the cylinder that has corroded resulting in damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cotleigh crasher Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 Result ! I visited the garage this morning, complained firmly but politely to the manager, who looked suitably ashen faced when I mentioned that his tester had passed a car with dodgy brakes, he apologised profusely and has now picked up the Landy to fit a new master cylinder and sort out the brakes free of charge. I should bloody well think so! Yet another example of what a mockery the current MOT test is. Thanks for your support chaps. Looks like I'm going away tonight after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Looks like I'm going away tonight after all. only if they fix it properly, at least the garage has taken it on & not told you to get lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cotleigh crasher Posted June 9, 2013 Author Share Posted June 9, 2013 only if they fix it properly, at least the garage has taken it on & not told you to get lost. Update: Fair play to the garage, they changed the master cylinder, no difference. Took the servo off, found the linkage behind all mashed up and about to fall apart, changed the servo, brakes locked up solid. After a lot of buggering about, realised too much fluid in the system due to the amount of slack in the old linkage, drained some off and bingo, brakes. They worked until 9:00pm to get it sorted for me to go away and true to thier word, they did. The problem seems to be that a previous owner or garage changed the servo but fitted ordinary nuts & washers instead of nylocks, they subsequently came undone and allowed the linkage to slop around causing huge amounts of wear & bending of the pushrod. My garage bleeding the brakes took it to its limit and it finally gave up the ghost, so its not really thier fault that things failed, but they are definitely at fault for passing it and allowing me to drive it away like that. Anyway, a happy ending. went away friday night, had a great weekend, just got back, still got brakes. Ralph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 good to read you have a satisfactory result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Thanks for closing the thread out, helps a heap for people with the same symptoms trying to fault find. Glad you got it all sorted out. Mav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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