No more oil exchange.... synthetic oils live forever. How to do ?

[SenseMaker2013]

Anything other than servicing a vehicle with genuine parts and specified lube oils at the manufacturers recommended schedule is sufficient grounds to invalidate the warranty if something major goes bang, and suggesting anything other than that is completely misleading.

@BogMonster: As it seems you are the expert for waranty cases... so one question: What about "used cars" ? - I suppose many of the folks here only can afford to buy a used vehicle (Landrover, RangeRover whatever).

If you buy a car with 100,000 km 2nd or third hand built in 2004 nobody cares anymore about warantees. The new car owner of this used vehicle is totally free to do what he likes to do.

I tell you by experience what I have seen by rent-a-car, like Hertz I worked for as a hiker while I was student. In the 80th came up the maintenance control by BMW. Even for the smaller models of the 3-series. It had been a LED row, so fare I remember from Green to Yellow to Red. Looked like this:

So driving a BMW seemed to become very easy for the owner as he hadnt to keep in mind the intervals for his car checks, oil exchanges etc. ... That time BMWs had been very sensitive with oil... remember the blue smoke they blown out shifting the geer.

A BMW driver just kept watching the LED warning and as soon it moved into the direction of red, he fixed a date with the auto garage (BMW contracted dealer) to maintain his car. So less wanted it BMW to keep its customers under control.

When these LED controls came up, it was only possible by BMW to delete the warning. It made a driver very nervious to see it in the display. He was forced by BMW like "Big brother is watching you" method.

Very soon after this maintenance control was introduced some clever folks developed tools you could buy for deleting this alarm as it was clear that mainly profit thinking by BMW itself was behind. It had no logical reasons to force the BMW owners so heavily and so strictly. A concrete example:

The Rent-A-Car company Hertz I worked for in my student times had very often this situation, that it should send its BMWs into the garage having the LED warning in the Red zone. On the other hand, customers stood at the counter and wanted rent a BMW. So what did the Hertz bosses ? - They just went to the garage sending a hiker like me and there BMW used an electronic tool to connect with the car, pressed the button and the alarm disappeared. The hiker drove the car back and it went into the rent contract and on the road back, without maintenance.

Clearly to say: the BWM car was not maintained, as it has to make money for Hertz. Believe me, a big rent-a-car company like Hertz (in the 80th it had been the world biggest) isnt so foolish to take the risk to loose warantees given by BMW. They dealt it flexible and individually with BMW. Hertz had BMW in hands, as BMW wanted sell huge numbers of new BMWs to Hertz. So Hertz defined the rules, and BMW accepted.

As soon as the control tools were available in the market the Hertz company bought one on its own in every Hertz station as you know at the airports, so they pressed the button on their own to reset the alarm back to neutral. Quick and simple done.

In my understanding: It was just a trick by BMW itself to keep the buyers under control... all works by fear like politicans do. Today such warnings look more elegant... but in princips its the same thinking behind of the car companies: keep control about the car owner and push him/her into the garage as the main business today is made with maintenance and repair business (less so it is in the segment of trucks so fare I know).

[SenseMaker2013]

simonr, on 20 Jul 2013 - 23:08, said:

Western Union only I'm afraid!

Si

...

That's fine. I'm just so excited about it all - they say the margins will be huge!

guys, guys, guys.... what are you doing ? - Seems you have experiences with African Scams... Poor boys. How much money you lost till today ? As we like to say: Burnt childs like to avoid water. I understand now. You have my fully empathies :-)

[TheRecklessEngineer]

Sigh. This is my last contribution to this thread.

Speaking as a modern BMW (horror, yes I know) driver:

A BMW driver just kept watching the LED warning and as soon it moved into the direction of red, he fixed a date with the auto garage (BMW contracted dealer) to maintain his car.

Yes.

When these LED controls came up, it was only possible by BMW to delete the warning. It made a driver very nervious to see it in the display. He was forced by BMW like "Big brother is watching you" method.

No, it's not. The software to reset it is openly available from BMW. There are strict regulations on this to prevent a car manufacturer gaining a monopoly for it's dealers. It's also possible to reset it using a combination of button presses. There's also plenty of 3rd party software to reset it, and there's a very large online community for support in this.

In my understanding: It was just a trick by BMW itself to keep the buyers under control... all works by fear like politicans do. Today such warnings look more elegant... but in princips its the same thinking behind of the car companies: keep control about the car owner and push him/her into the garage as the main business today is made with maintenance and repair business (less so it is in the segment of trucks so fare I know).

Bullsquirt.

All cars require regular maintenance. Not just engine oil, but what about brakes, oil levels, water levels, tyre treads etc? The inspection lights used by BMW indicate that it's time for an inspection, not just an oil change. For a hire car company to be hiring out cars that hadn't had an inspection is ludicrous.

What 99% of the public want to do is to be able to get in their car and drive it. It is a convenient method of getting around. They will tolerate bringing it in for a service/inspection every now and again in order to prevent it breaking down. Those that frequent this forum do not generally fit into that band - we are the 1%.

One of Mercedes' vehicles will actually book itself in and have someone come and collect it when it is due. It's all about the convenience.

Just to fit a filter to extend oil life and totally neglect the rest of the car is ludicrous.

I've said before in this thread. Adding an extra filter might well prolong oil life. But as it's totally worthless for most of the car driving public.

[SenseMaker2013]

No, it's not. The software to reset it is openly available from BMW. There are strict regulations on this to prevent a car manufacturer gaining a monopoly for it's dealers. It's also possible to reset it using a combination of button presses. There's also plenty of 3rd party software to reset it, and there's a very large online community for support in this.

It was the 80th... fare before the European Union... believe me. Only available by BMW. My uncle Max (may he rest in peace) worked all his life for BMW, and as he was married with BMW since end of 2nd worldwar naturally by his passion for his employer he drove all his life only BMWs, starting with BMW motor bikes and later cars.... :-) As Bavarian on my own I have nothing against BMW. :-) But I dont make me blind about the reality as it had been. Some might feel such control systems as something positive, but not me. If I know that I have to do inspection small every 10,000km and every 20,000km the big inspection. Its enough for me to know. A regularly look under the hood of the car tells me all what I must know. If people become too lazy for doing that they shall be happy with such LED controls. Its not my understanding about having a life lead by self control.

Might be today with the European Union, that this kind of monopolist habit is forbidden, you might be right for 21st century that some reglementations by EU parliament dont allow it anymore. :-)

[SenseMaker2013]

Just to fit a filter to extend oil life and totally neglect the rest of the car is ludicrous.

Personally I prefer pure cars.... where you have to press the button to start the engine. It doesnt need lots of more.

And not all this stuff inside what cars carry around these days become more heavy with all the electronic comfort devices inside therefore the new car models dont come down with fuel consumption (see Golf 7).

Sure... for the "normal car consumer" its a nice gimmick to have such LED controls, GPS navigator to tell him or her when to turn right or left etc. ... Do this, do that, let be this, let be that... no doubt, for the masses of car owners its something to keep them in their comfort zones. How fare we want go with that ??? - As soon all cars are setup with Internet connection, we will get sms then in the car to be remembered that we might visit the next BMW exhebition round corner to do test driving with the new car model, and same being rememberd to visit the garage for full inspection. - How fare shall all this go ?

I am not here to speak for the masses. If I buy a car, I overtake the responsability for everything, as you said some different details one must keep in mind and eye.

On my own I experienced to handle vehicles as I was a 4x4 truck driver and radio operator at military. I went through an intensive training of all what you are talking about inclusive gear and brake oil exchange etc. ... I dont expect from normal people that they know how to do even an oil exchange, which is very simple indeed and can be done by everybody. If they want have a life with all that control instruments around telling how to be, what to be, so it is.

But this does not mean, that I give applaus to the trends we have in our modern life. More simple, more better, thats my understanding. For our media project I was requesting a proposal by MAN. The sales manager told me couple of weeks ago: Dont buy a truck of 2014 as it has the Euro6 norm engine. Its too modern, and cant be maintained by many garages in Europe. Too much electronics.... so better buy the old one. You see.... our life becomes more and more complexe and we move into a more heavily dependency. - Is that good for anybody ?

A car is still a car (and still should be). It has an engine, a chassis and 5 wheels (4 tires + 1 steering wheel). Thats the core of any car. All the gimmicks around arent for anything real good. A car has to bring me from A to B safely... Its good to have airbags and a safety belt, no doubt. But it does not need to have GPS as one still can train his/her brain to use a map, or winter heating system to warm up the car by time alarm, screens for DVD players etc. ...

You might remember the discussions about when computers came up at the beginning of the 90th. There existed prognosis about that we would live in paper free offices and we would become more "eco friendly" killing less trees. The opposite happened. More than ever we have paper consumption as soon the good printers came up, 1st as black/white laser printers midth the 90th and meanwhile top multifunctional printers at lowest prizes of less than 100 Euros.

We humans always can expand our lifes into more modernity... its nearby endless. One day you will get beep alarms in you textiles as they became intelligent and communicate with your car so the jacket will tell you that you have to bring your car to the garage for full inspection...

More intelligence one has, more crazy ideas one can create by creativity.... but that does not mean its for anything real good ! Its just for keeping our economic system running... without giving real sense.

[BogMonster]

@BogMonster: As it seems you are the expert for waranty cases... so one question: What about "used cars" ? - I suppose many of the folks here only can afford to buy a used vehicle (Landrover, RangeRover whatever).

If you buy a car with 100,000 km 2nd or third hand built in 2004 nobody cares anymore about warantees. The new car owner of this used vehicle is totally free to do what he likes to do.

That wasn't the point you made. If you read the quote that I put above my last reply, you implied quite specifically that there would be no grounds for a warranty claim to be rejected if one of these things was fitted. I disagree and believe that statement was entirely misleading.

As to the rest of it and the value in arguing about this subject generally this springs to mind

[SenseMaker2013]

That wasn't the point you made. If you read the quote that I put above my last reply, you implied quite specifically that there would be no grounds for a warranty claim to be rejected if one of these things was fitted. I disagree and believe that statement was entirely misleading.

I didnt say anything against it ,did I ? - I learn quickly.... so I went on with my following-up question: Whats about "used cars" ? I dont think, if you install a filter on such one, it created warantee problems. Or ?

[SenseMaker2013]

As to the rest of it and the value in arguing about this subject generally this springs to mind

Okeys... I give you some more headaque and sleepless night, as so many things are wrong on the Internet. Ever heard about "Life Time Oil" ? - No more Oil exchange - even without using a Bypass oil filter ?

Read this: http://www.lifetime24.com/index.php/en/

If you want know more about, contact them directly, otherwise you get the risk to meet some Internet fools:

http://www.lifetime24.com/index.php/en/inquiry-for-oil

The solution offered by LifeTime was proofed critically by one of these neutral laboratories, its name WearCheck...

http://www.wearcheck.com/

Same opinion there. No oil exchange required. Easily the modern oils can be used for 100,000 km (without using a bypass oil filter).

Lifetime24 was able to contract ALLIANZ ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allianz ) one of the world biggest insurances for getting a police to protect customer's damages. The contract was proofen by my TV colleagues of ZDF. - LifeTime is servicing customers since more than 10 years, and never one of these customers ever had an engine damage, inspite all never changed their oil after the 1st filling by LifeTime Oil.

So enjoy your sleepless nights finding some more fools on the Web who tell you contradictive nonsense about necessarily oil exchanges. :-)

[Retroanaconda]

It costs me about £25 in oil and £5 for a filter each time I change the oil in my Defender. This is done every 6,000 miles which is roughly every 5 - 6 months. So it's costing me £60 a year to change the oil doing 12,000 miles annually.

Compare that to approximately £2,500 (at current prices) that it costs me a year to do that mileage, then add things like other servicing, MOT, insurance, road tax and repairs and you can see that for me the cost of oil changes is such a small part of the annual running cost of the vehicle (less than 2%) that I'm really not that bothered about it to be honest.

It may be different for others, for example more modern vehicles have longer oil change intervals and often use more expensive oil, and some may have to pay labour rates as well, but for myself - and I would say the majority of Land Rover owners on this forum - it's just not worthwhile.

[TheRecklessEngineer]

wrong.jpg

You know, that's exactly what I said to someone reading over my shoulder whilst I wrote my last post.

And this occurred to me too:

[rick]

...., naa, just couldn't be arsed.........

[BogMonster]

...., naa, just couldn't be arsed.........

Oh go on

[rick]

Oh go on

[FridgeFreezer]

Sorry to resurrect this but I saw my mate the other day who's an actual oil chemist for an actual major oil company and asked him about this, so I thought I'd share his professional opinion:

It's utter b*ll*cks, there is so much wrong with it it's hard to know where to start.

A few of the low-hanging fruit are:

- It can't reassemble long chain molecules

- It can't neutralise acidity

- It can't replace spent / burnt additives / regulators etc.

- If it's even half as good a filter as they claim, it might actually filter out some of the important additives

There were several others but they had long words in and I've slept since then.

He did then say that of course it's really all an evil conspiracy perpetrated by the oil companies and governments to make everyone do slightly more regular oil changes, because, y know, the alien lizards that control the world order really love regular oil changes.

[simonr]

He did then say that of course it's really all an evil conspiracy perpetrated by the oil companies and governments to make everyone do slightly more regular oil changes, because, y know, the alien lizards that control the world order really love regular oil changes.

That's what I thought too! Damn those Lizards!

Si