De Ranged Posted September 21, 2013 Author Share Posted September 21, 2013 Isn't the track link for the Range Rover axle in the same place as the leaf spring? Or are you going coil, too? Yep your right and I'm not going coils. The swivel housing has a forward pointing mount for the drag link.... it doesn't have the correct placement for ackerman but they have a good pin mount and a good mounting point where the bump stop screws in... a bit of carving on the mill and I should be able to make an overlay with the correct ackerman and lift the tie-rod and drag link up a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Post pictures when you are doing this please - VERY interesting. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Gee, was it 30 years ago already? ! !. I am beginning to feel real old now. Doesn't time fly when you are having fun . It flies whether you are having fun or not! Ergo, you may as well have fun... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted September 23, 2013 Author Share Posted September 23, 2013 A wee update on this.... Hilux steering column is going to fit nicely and give me an adjustable steering wheel, steering shaft UJ's all with in angle limits steering box will fit in pretty much the same place as the relay bell crank just looking at options today hey anyone know if its possible to fit the longer inner D/S's from the Rangy into the S3 swivel housings.... what I'm looking at is fitting the S3 swivels and steering onto the wider Rangy housing, I know I'll loose the disk brakes.... the reason I'm looking at this option is to get the correct ackerman angle on the Rangy swivels is going to take alot of work doing a disk brake conversion might be easier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 The series drive shafts are UJ type (except for the stage 1 V8), the rangie are CV. I don't think they can be interchanged. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Could you fit hilux axles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 A wee update on this.... Hilux steering column is going to fit nicely and give me an adjustable steering wheel, steering shaft UJ's all with in angle limits steering box will fit in pretty much the same place as the relay bell crank just looking at options today hey anyone know if its possible to fit the longer inner D/S's from the Rangy into the S3 swivel housings.... what I'm looking at is fitting the S3 swivels and steering onto the wider Rangy housing, I know I'll loose the disk brakes.... the reason I'm looking at this option is to get the correct ackerman angle on the Rangy swivels is going to take alot of work doing a disk brake conversion might be easier If you haven't already removed the series front end, before you do, why not do a relatively quick ,easy experiment and flip the steering arms to the top of the swivels, shorten the trackrod and try reverse Ackerman angles. It might surprise you how well it behaves. I did it years ago to provide clearance for duall front wheels, and although I now run singles, I wouldn't have the steering any other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted September 23, 2013 Author Share Posted September 23, 2013 Thanks for the heads up Gazza you saved me wasting the day lol.... looks like I might have to run the series axles and see about disk conversions I spent last night on CAD and the calculator to get the correct ackerman with the Rangy axles is just not worth it I can't get the safety margins in the system to warrant all the trouble and still leaves me with an axle with no free wheeling hubs Often wondered about Ackerman, the radio control boys play with it alot and the drifters use it to gain better steering at lock, I've never thought to adjust it, when ever I've made steering arms I've calculated and machined in correct angle... because its the "done thing" lol just out of interest did you post up yrs ago about running reverse ackerman and good tyre wear, doing research on the power steering I found archive posts from an Aussy who had done it, different name but made me think of you Regardless of how easy it would make things and cool factor for playing with things, I'm dealing with a bunch of mechanics not engineers so I have to keep to the "done thing" lol especially since this has to gain approval for the certifier as well as me Right looks like I'm going to have to do disks for a Slla Another question for you guys is the front axle the same on the Sll and the Slll, if it is I'll sort the disk conversion using the axle under my Slll toy Oh and you'll laugh at this... this is vapour at the moment, I don't have a truck yet lol I will be getting one.... its just when I do I don't want to wait for a couple of months for approval to start, thats why I'm doing the paper work now, the rest of the mods... disk brakes, bigger brake booster and change of master, car seats, 3 point seat belts, engine swop and turbo, modified cabin structure (removing the rear bulkhead so can get from back to the front without climbing) and possibly another fuel tank, they are all easy cert items and within the local certifiers ability.... steering is the tricky one lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I used to think I knew my stuff before I came on here and started uncovering great knowledge. I'll chip in anyway. I'm pretty sure that Series II and III share the same front axle, though later/bigger ones run bigger drums. The exceptions are the Stage One V8 which runs a higher gearing and CVs instead of UJs. I think the IIB forward control may have had something different (it did in the rear) but good luck finding one. Standard steering was actually quite reasonable with the smaller, lower grip tyres of the day but times have changed! There are posts here about disc brake conversions. I wish that was more straightforward because the drums can give big moments, especially when wet. I rate the brake upgrade well over the steering upgrade and both over the upgrade to coils (you get all three if you get a Defender...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted September 24, 2013 Author Share Posted September 24, 2013 Thanks for that Don, yea I know "get modern and get more performance economy etc" lol yea a defender has it all apart form the old school style and there is the fun element of playing with your toys you don't get by buying modern Will sort the Cert stuff then I'll "play" with the suspension a wee bit... adding plastic to the springs made the rear end of the toy so supple I want to try it on a road going toy..... I think I mentioned my views on leaves when you dropped in the shed lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Thanks for that Don, yea I know "get modern and get more performance economy etc" lol yea a defender has it all apart form the old school style and there is the fun element of playing with your toys you don't get by buying modern Will sort the Cert stuff then I'll "play" with the suspension a wee bit... adding plastic to the springs made the rear end of the toy so supple I want to try it on a road going toy..... I think I mentioned my views on leaves when you dropped in the shed lol I'm becoming more of a fan of leaves as I get older. Mainly 'cos I'm lazy and they just work for years, and often get better as they wear. They're just not as compliant as coils but your plastic probably goes a long way to fixing that! The economics of getting a Defender just don't stack up for me, though I did own and love a 110 when I was younger and thought I was rich... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Yes Deranged, I have used various usernames on different forums, and it does sound like one of my posts, as I would be one of the few if not the only one to play around with Ackerman angles on series axles in OZ at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Plastic on springs? DO tell! G. Thanks for that Don, yea I know "get modern and get more performance economy etc" lol yea a defender has it all apart form the old school style and there is the fun element of playing with your toys you don't get by buying modern Will sort the Cert stuff then I'll "play" with the suspension a wee bit... adding plastic to the springs made the rear end of the toy so supple I want to try it on a road going toy..... I think I mentioned my views on leaves when you dropped in the shed lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 It was in one of DeRanged other threads, his toy, basically slipping bits of thin HDPE or similar between the leaves, he also mounted them quarter-elliptically ( I think that's right ) to make them uber-flexy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 i dont want to hijack the thread, but at the same time, im not sure wether its worth starting up yet ANOTHER series PAS thread. thinking outside the (steering)box, has anyone ever considered retrofitting a eurocrossover electric PAS system, this just uses a signal to activate a motor that is part of the upper steering column, next to the barrel in the standard application. although strength of the bulkhead would need to be improved, the physical effort it provides needs to be taken into account, and cutting up and modifying the standard column would be neccessary, along with some sort of electrical sensor that has the right voltage/resistance range (details can be found on Autodata for all pin out/inputs on any car) surely you would end up with PAS that hasnt affected the chassis, important to some owners such as galv chassis owners who do not want to cut and weld their shiny chassis as it would intorduce a rust "penetration" point. any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 The problem with electric power steering assistance to the steering column is that it puts huge strain on the standard steering box and relay (as mentioned earlier, those relays can twist or shear relatively easily if overloaded), whereas the hydraulic options (whether a full PAS replacement from another vehicle or the strap-on ram kit) provides assistance after the relay or replaces it completely, so such shears are impossible. If you want to fit discs, a wider axle and CV joints, why not fit coiler axles? I have done it to my 109, retaining leaf springs. The front axle saddles have to be a bit taller to allow the track rod to clear the springs, but by using 1-ton shackles and re-orienting the spring angle, ot by using a 1-ton chassis like me, the loss of ride height can be regained. The one issue I seemed to have after fitting coiler axles was the tendency of the front prop UJ yolks to hit the rhs engine mount under heavy braking. This is because of the combination of the higher diff pinion position (inclined, rather than horizontal like SII/SIII axles) and the lower engine bracket for the Defender TD/Tdi engines. By fabricating a higher arched engine mount, the clearance issue has been resolved and the axle wrap control ideas I was investigating have proven unnecessary. It's all documented on the axle section of my blog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted September 24, 2013 Author Share Posted September 24, 2013 My choice of axles depends on what I have available lol I am cheap when it comes to my projects I have a pair of Rangy axles one all shaved and braced with an arb on 10 spline.... thats my main push for the Rangie axles I also have a few Hilux axles but the diff heads to get the right ratio are silly money and I don't have any diffs for them ($600-$800) Then there is the new truck if I get the one I'm looking at it has a Salsbury rear but I'm guessing 10 spline front so throw the arb up front and put disks on front and rear ($400) this has the bonus for me that the axle stays the same including the steering arms so effectively all I have to do geometry wise is match the pitman arm to the passanger steering arm and you'll laugh at this but the Hilux surf pitman is 1mm longer so that close its a shoe in.... the only loss is the width but I've got some offset white spokes so that will help might keep my eyes open for some wheel spacers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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