o_teunico Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Has any memeber of this fórum ever seen some bent radius arms in a Landy to form a triangualted two link? This pictures are from a Bronco, one of the cars that Rover engineers studied when developing the Range Rover. It will be extremly cheap and simple to créate. Bent radious arms and bolt them to a fabricated crossmember. Job done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash.Witty Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Yes, there's a Facebook page called modified D1 rovers, with that setup on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash.Witty Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Well... I've got some Piccys, they are a similar style to the bronco's setup but they are not triangulated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 more or less a 1 link, not set on this one IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 May has well go One link and reduce the need for all those bushings except for one at the crossmember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 My thoughts too.... far more complicated, but no perceived benefit over one-link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Looking at it though, it does seem easier to package around the existing components like prop and sump. But I am even more confused by the title things as I thought "one" was welded "A" frame to axle and connected to chassis, this looks to have adjustable links in it that are tied to the link arm and to a bracket with a mounting higher up, maybe to correct castor? Anyone care to clarify my befuddled mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 The whole setup functions on the same principal as raduis arms. You are still trying to twist the axle tube! Triangulated they might be less binding, and going towards a 1 link setup. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Looking at it though, it does seem easier to package around the existing components like prop and sump. But I am even more confused by the title things as I thought "one" was welded "A" frame to axle and connected to chassis, this looks to have adjustable links in it that are tied to the link arm and to a bracket with a mounting higher up, maybe to correct castor? Anyone care to clarify my befuddled mind? Looks like you say.. adjustable caster, would be useful if you run different ride heights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted October 23, 2013 Author Share Posted October 23, 2013 I´m thinking about this system because, if bent standard radius arms are used, axle will be 100% stock, chassis will be 100% stock, 100% of existing bushes will be used and a simple bolt on gearbox crossmemeber will be the only "special" part needed. I think that, at least in my case, using standard radius arms as a base will ease things when dealing with the ITV (our MoT equivalent). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 I´m thinking about this system because, if bent standard radius arms are used, axle will be 100% stock, chassis will be 100% stock, 100% of existing bushes will be used and a simple bolt on gearbox crossmemeber will be the only "special" part needed. I think that, at least in my case, using standard radius arms as a base will ease things when dealing with the ITV (our MoT equivalent). Think you could be on to something there but I only question how much bend/how much shorter the radius arm becomes? Or am I looking for a problem???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Some years back there was a challenge truck built that way. Front seemed pretty flexy as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted October 24, 2013 Author Share Posted October 24, 2013 Yes, becoming "shorter" will be one of the problems. Also, some side load will be applied to the radius arm itself and bushing, and they were both designed only for fore-aft loadings. Is that challenge truck the one from Dave Lloyd? It was discussed at http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=82050&page=1 but I have been unable to locate any pic at the WWW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 this could be interesting..... am I right in saying you could turn this into something akin to a single link with no panhard..... bring both arms at the chassis to the center you efectivily have a one link yes.... right spread em apart a bit probably about half way to being straight again..... you have triangulation to stop side to side.... you'd have to do it with hiem joints This would make the rollcenter height the hieght of the convergance of the links ? you could make a really high rollcenter ... damm it, Im missing something blastard painkillers I cant think straight am I right ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 this could be interesting..... am I right in saying you could turn this into something akin to a single link with no panhard..... bring both arms at the chassis to the center you efectivily have a one link yes.... right spread em apart a bit probably about half way to being straight again..... you have triangulation to stop side to side.... you'd have to do it with hiem joints This would make the rollcenter height the hieght of the convergance of the links ? you could make a really high rollcenter ... damm it, Im missing something blastard painkillers I cant think straight am I right ? No, you would still require a panhard rod for lateral control, or an upper sliding link A frame, which would be difficult to package as a front end, and may create bump steer if both front wheels strike depressions or pot holes etc simultaneously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Na na lol Im no good at explaining things... add in the painkillers and I clean missed the good bit lol in that bronco build the guy ran short links from the lower links to the axle there is your lateral support.... run them from the link to a point on the axle further in from where the link connects this triangulation is what holds it..... so no panhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Na na lol Im no good at explaining things... add in the painkillers and I clean missed the good bit lol in that bronco build the guy ran short links from the lower links to the axle there is your lateral support.... run them from the link to a point on the axle further in from where the link connects this triangulation is what holds it..... so no panhard Wow those painkillers are really affecting you. The Panhard rod and its chassis mounting bracket is clearly visible on the bottom photo. The short links attached to the lower links merely emulate radius arms, albeit adjustable (for castor)ones and offer no lateral support that I can discern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 LOL yea I know, Im not talking about his setup..... when I first saw it I missed the panhard next shot is it in action and you cant see a panhard so I was racking my brain how he did it with just one set of links thats when I came up with that idea..... on second viewing I seen the panhard lol I dont think my idea is practical tho the short triangulation link would be putting alot of bending load on the link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 This site is playing up tonight. Just typed a post, tried to submit but a message informed me that my post is empty. What the hell ? ! ! ! Went through that time. In my last failed post I tried to describe how it is theoretically possible to build a One link without Panhard, but the components would need to be much stronger and probably heavier than normal. To try to simplify explanation, Visualise a LandRover stub axle (spindle) and hub bolted to the wishbone crossmember. Now visualise the wishbone bolted to the hub via a non compliant plain bronze bush that only allows the wishbone to pivot up and down but not laterally. Axle roll or articulation is through the hub bearingsm up and down suspension movement via the wishbone bushing. No Panhard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 lol I'm clear'er this morning havent had my pills, going to have to take em soon tho.... I can visualise that, it would be a packaging night mare lol..... as for calculating its handling I wouldnt know where to begin Handling wise I dont think it would be good.... too many forces comflicting, your roll center height would be constantly on the move it would feel very unstable its the wish bones that cause the trouble, ditch them and run a system like this... Use your center spindle at the rotational pivot for your one link... go from that to an up and down knuckle ..... this way you dont have a side changing roll center from the wishbones, your roll center only changes under acceleration or braking again so feels confident on a sidling right past time to take my pills lol Oh and sorry for dragging the thread off topic...... even if it is by only one or two links lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 lol I'm clear'er this morning havent had my pills, going to have to take em soon tho.... I can visualise that, it would be a packaging night mare lol..... as for calculating its handling I wouldnt know where to begin Handling wise I dont think it would be good.... too many forces comflicting, your roll center height would be constantly on the move it would feel very unstable its the wish bones that cause the trouble, ditch them and run a system like this... Use your center spindle at the rotational pivot for your one link... go from that to an up and down knuckle ..... this way you dont have a side changing roll center from the wishbones, your roll center only changes under acceleration or braking again so feels confident on a sidling right past time to take my pills lol Oh and sorry for dragging the thread off topic...... even if it is by only one or two links lol Sorry mate, but I think you just described what I unsuccessfully tried to clearly describe. As for a packaging nightmare, I disagree, as the way I actually visualise it, the hub and spindle would be replaced by a more compact,short semi floating halfshaft, supported on two pillow block bearing units, one in front of and one behind the say 90x90mm boxed crossmember. The up/down knuckle would be welded direct to the flange of the short halfshaft. Handling ? well that is a different story altogether , and the variation in roll centre height may depend on how far from the for/aft pitch axis of the vehicle the spindle is mounted. It may not be an issue on a SWB, who knows? Anyone care to 'suck it and see' ? It would be easy enough to just refit the Panhard rod and a compliant bushing to the wishbone pivot to revert to a conventional One Link if handling is sketchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Dave Lloyd's truck has landy radius arms mounted under the chassis rails. They are bent inward just behind the axel, so it flexes better and gets more steering. We wondered how far that would go? Could they be say 12" apart at the chassis end? (or less) You only need a hot bend and some spare anchor brackets to find out? (I'd leave the donut end un-bent). I think there is a lot of weird stuff out there. Basic rule of true free flex has to be; "can you remove a pivot bolt at full articulation without a hammer and drift" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Basic rule of true free flex has to be; "can you remove a pivot bolt at full articulation without a hammer and drift" Why would you want or need to do that? And what LandRover owner in their right mind doesn't carry a full compliment of tools around with them anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Dave Lloyd's truck has landy radius arms mounted under the chassis rails. They are bent inward just behind the axel, so it flexes better and gets more steering. We wondered how far that would go? Could they be say 12" apart at the chassis end? (or less) You only need a hot bend and some spare anchor brackets to find out? (I'd leave the donut end un-bent). I think there is a lot of weird stuff out there. Basic rule of true free flex has to be; "can you remove a pivot bolt at full articulation without a hammer and drift" moving the chassis mounts on radius arms or leaf springs so they angle to the axle will change understeer / oversteer allowing you to tune your handling more for what you want so if you planned on racing offroad and want nice predictable you setup for understeer bit lost on the basic rule thing, I'm guessing that you feel unless its got Heim joints its no good LOL awfully short sited.... radius arms only flex due to the rubber, my rear suspension wouldnt be possible with out rubber.... dont box yourself in by setting rules lol all it does is rule out options... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 Dave Lloyd's truck has landy radius arms mounted under the chassis rails Any pictures/videos of this vehicle so we can see it´s suspension travel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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