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Normbourne

Series 2A gearbox/transfer case assy.

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Hi Snagger,

As a matter of fact, I intend to extend the breathers, including those from the axles, with nylon tubing, into the engine space and terminate them at highest possible point on the firewall.

The idea being to improve the wading ability to some degree. Im not talking about taking the vehicle swimming but simply to enable creek crossings to be accomplished with little likely hood of water ingress to GB, TC, or axles.

I intend of course to loctite the bearing housing. Removing the old oil seal, revealed a seized output bearing which had been spinning within the housing also, thank heavens for loctite.

Norm.

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Hi Snagger,

As a matter of fact, I intend to extend the breathers, including those from the axles, with nylon tubing, into the engine space and terminate them at highest possible point on the firewall.

The idea being to improve the wading ability to some degree. Im not talking about taking the vehicle swimming but simply to enable creek crossings to be accomplished with little likely hood of water ingress to GB, TC, or axles.

I intend of course to loctite the bearing housing. Removing the old oil seal, revealed a seized output bearing which had been spinning within the housing also, thank heavens for loctite.

Norm.

That'll work well. Try to finish the breathers with a downward angle, like an inverted U-bend to prevent dirt falling in or water dripping in. If you have s snorkel, you could join the breathers together with T-pieces and run the single shared hose through a drilling in the snorkel, sealed up with black silicone or PU adhesive to make the breather height the same as the snorkel height.

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Have seen a modification done my Logrover where gear case was drilled and tapped for a stud to hold the bearing carrier still.

Stops the spin, but not the leak, so it's a pointless mod where seating compound is easier and more beneficial.

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Have seen a modification done my Logrover where gear case was drilled and tapped for a stud to hold the bearing carrier still.

I think the serie 1 and 2 had a locating pin for the main bearing carrier as standard and that was replaced by the bearing seating compound in the serie 2a.

But like Snagger says. That pin will stop the carrier turning in the casing but not the leak.

Eric.

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I think the serie 1 and 2 had a locating pin for the main bearing carrier as standard and that was replaced by the bearing seating compound in the serie 2a.

But like Snagger says. That pin will stop the carrier turning in the casing but not the leak.

Eric.

Indeed there is a slot at 3 o'clock and a peg in the housing. Looking at the slot it is likely that this was removed as it helps the leak??

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Oil Migration gearbox to transfer case.

Ive been giving the matter of oil migration between gearbox to transfer/case in series Land Rovers a great deal of thought and have concluded as follows.

I am well aware of the widely held conception that They all do that mate but there has to be a reason..!

The popular opinion is that oil tends to leak around the insert at the G/Box to insert interface which carries the main output bearing, assuming of course that the oil seal is in good condition.

I have recently become aware that oil may also be leaking to the transfer case at the rear end of the gear selection rods, where there is a chamber which drains directly into the T/Case via a channel in the casting at the G/Box -T/Case interface. Apparently this channels primary purpose is to provide a breather to the transfer case.

I believe that for oil flow to occur past the insert and past the gear selection rods, something must be driving it.

The manufacturers have provided a small hole, approx. 3mm in diameter in the top of the gearbox, and again in the inspection plate at the top of the T/Case, to serve as breathers to relieve any pressure, I contend that this is inadequate!

When one considers a chamber, where pressure exists, for it to dissipate in a timely manner, provision must be made to relieve any pressure. It then follows that the larger the breather, the faster pressure relief will occur.

If of course pressure isnt relieved, then it will blow oil past the output shaft oil seal, past the bearing insert, past the gear control rods, and also that maybe thats the reason that very often, the oil seals at the forward end of the of the control rods leak.

In my own gearbox, which is presently undergoing overhaul, Ive taken steps to address these issues.

Ive mounted the bearing insert with Loctite 680, at the insert/Gbox interface, also the bearing mounting into the insert. The output bearing was changed to a 2RS, the seal removed on the inboard side and new oil seal fitted.

A hole was drilled from the chamber at the rear end of the gear selection rods into the gear box and the channel in the casting, which had served as a T/Case breather, was blocked off, thus ensuring any gearbox oil appearing in the chamber, would drain back into the gear box.

An 8mm banjo was installed to the top of the gearbox and an 8mm ID. nylon pipe connected, and run to the engine bay and terminated to the top of the firewall.

An 8mm banjo was installed to the top of the transfer case and again, an 8mm ID. nylon pipe connected, and run to the engine bay and terminated to the top of the firewall.

The G/Box oil filler was modified to allow oil replenishment to be carried out from the cab, a dipstick has been installed to the oil filler cap, to allow monitoring of level.

The T/Box was modified by the installation of a dipstick and a new oil filler plug was installed to the top inspection plate, so the oil level, and replenishment of oil can again be carried out from the cab.

If after all that, oil migration still occurs, then I will join the They All do that Brigade

The only problem is, is that it will be some time before the vehicle is ready for the road, so I wont know for a while whether Ive been successful.

Oil Migration gearbox to transfer case.

Ive been giving the matter of oil migration between gearbox to transfer/case in series Land Rovers a great deal of thought and have concluded as follows.

I am well aware of the widely held conception that They all do that mate but there has to be a reason..!

The popular opinion is that oil tends to leak around the insert at the G/Box to insert interface which carries the main output bearing, assuming of course that the oil seal is in good condition.

I have recently become aware that oil may also be leaking to the transfer case at the rear end of the gear selection rods, where there is a chamber which drains directly into the T/Case via a channel in the casting at the G/Box -T/Case interface. Apparently this channels primary purpose is to provide a breather to the transfer case.

I believe that for oil flow to occur past the insert and past the gear selection rods, something must be driving it.

The manufacturers have provided a small hole, approx. 3mm in diameter in the top of the gearbox, and again in the inspection plate at the top of the T/Case, to serve as breathers to relieve any pressure, I contend that this is inadequate!

When one considers a chamber, where pressure exists, for it to dissipate in a timely manner, provision must be made to relieve any pressure. It then follows that the larger the breather, the faster pressure relief will occur.

If of course pressure isnt relieved, then it will blow oil past the output shaft oil seal, past the bearing insert, past the gear control rods, and also that maybe thats the reason that very often, the oil seals at the forward end of the of the control rods leak.

In my own gearbox, which is presently undergoing overhaul, Ive taken steps to address these issues.

Ive mounted the bearing insert with Loctite 680, at the insert/Gbox interface, also the bearing mounting into the insert. The output bearing was changed to a 2RS, the seal removed on the inboard side and new oil seal fitted.

A hole was drilled from the chamber at the rear end of the gear selection rods into the gear box and the channel in the casting, which had served as a T/Case breather, was blocked off, thus ensuring any gearbox oil appearing in the chamber, would drain back into the gear box.

An 8mm banjo was installed to the top of the gearbox and an 8mm ID. nylon pipe connected, and run to the engine bay and terminated to the top of the firewall.

An 8mm banjo was installed to the top of the transfer case and again, an 8mm ID. nylon pipe connected, and run to the engine bay and terminated to the top of the firewall.

The G/Box oil filler was modified to allow oil replenishment to be carried out from the cab, a dipstick has been installed to the oil filler cap, to allow monitoring of level.

The T/Box was modified by the installation of a dipstick and a new oil filler plug was installed to the top inspection plate, so the oil level, and replenishment of oil can again be carried out from the cab.

If after all that, oil migration still occurs, then I will join the They All do that Brigade

The only problem is, is that it will be some time before the vehicle is ready for the road, so I wont know for a while whether Ive been successful.

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That'll all work well, and I think the extended breathers are a good idea as they stop a lot of dirt and water ingress. I don't think there is an inherent problem with the size of the standard breathers - while the amount of air moving in or out of the unit may be more than some expect, the create at which it happens is small because of the time taken for the oil to warm or cool and subsequently change in volume, even in cases where a warmed unit is suddenly exposed to cold water like wading - even though the casing is highly conductive, there is 1.5l of oil, a large proportion of which is suspended as a mist, still being warmed by the mechanical forces that heated it in the first place, so oil temperature drop will be progressive, not rapid. Big breathers won't hurt, though. As for the oil getting past the selector rods, then "they all do that sir" is correct and there seems to be little that can be done to stop it short of fabricating some sort of housing to enclose the ends of the selectors and catch the weeping oil, making the mechanism internal like on the LT77s and R380s. But the weeping, though it makes a small mess, is inconsequentially small and will not register on the levels over the 6000 mile service schedule. It's just a shame it wrecks a smart drive way...

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Thanks Snagger for your comments and advice.

Actually, in the matter of the gear selector rods, I had thought that maybe a hydraulic seal, would be the answer, they are designed to seal on shafts operating in a linear motion at high pressure, whilst they are available to suit two shafts, I couldn't find any to suit the third shaft which of course is different in size. Un fortunately, they are not cheap..!

As regards the whole project, only time will tell of success or failure, but one thing for sure, it won't be any worse..!

Norm.

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Good work and am interested in the results.

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Thanks Snagger for your comments and advice.

Actually, in the matter of the gear selector rods, I had thought that maybe a hydraulic seal, would be the answer, they are designed to seal on shafts operating in a linear motion at high pressure, whilst they are available to suit two shafts, I couldn't find any to suit the third shaft which of course is different in size. Un fortunately, they are not cheap..!

As regards the whole project, only time will tell of success or failure, but one thing for sure, it won't be any worse..!

Norm.

Norm

Could you post up a part number and maker for those hydraulic seals?

Thanks mate.

G.

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Is that channel not the vent for the transfer case?

Indeed that channel WAS the breather for the T/Case, but is now blocked, and an alternative arrangement installed to the casing.

Norm.

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Norm

Could you post up a part number and maker for those hydraulic seals?

Thanks mate.

G.

Unfortunately Gazz, I never got around to getting part Nos. I went to a crowd here in oz called "Seal Imports" who deal with a no. Of suppliers.

To be honest I think you would have a much better chance obtaining seals in Europe. In hindsight I should have gone ahead and got the two that were available, after all they are used far more frequently, than the reverse, but SWMBO was on my case on the amount of cash on this project.

As I say, two seals were no prob it was the third on the Reverse selector rod that was bit difficult. To be honest I think you would have a much better chance obtaining seals in Europe.

Googling "Hydraulic Seals" brings up heaps of suppliers.

Good luck,

Norm.

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I think I know the type of seal you mean - used on hydraulic rams like mini diggers etc?

Next time I'm doing a box I'll see what I can ferret out. The great thing about the UK is there's an industrial estate somewhere that has a bloke what has exactly what I need. Trouble is finding him!

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I think I know the type of seal you mean - used on hydraulic rams like mini diggers etc?

Next time I'm doing a box I'll see what I can ferret out. The great thing about the UK is there's an industrial estate somewhere that has a bloke what has exactly what I need. Trouble is finding him!

Yes mate, they are exactly what I mean.. ! Pls let me know how you get on.

Norm.

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Further to the gearbox re-installation, my attention was drawn to the cover plate at the bottom of the gear box. I've always experienced oil leaks, and I've always wondered why...?

Anyway I concluded it was due to some degree to uneven expansion rates between the steel cover plate and aluminium transfer casing.

So I decided that an aluminium cover plate was in order. I reckoned that maybe the way to go was to cast one from scrap aluminium,

complete with cooling ribs to the outside.

I was pleased with the result but it took 3 attempts before I got it right. Hopefully that's the last of oil leaks in that area..!

Norm.

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PICTURES!!!! did you get any pictures of the casting process, i have only ever cast things at school and really enjoyed it, I cast and machined a little g cramp and a couple of other bits.

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Further to the gearbox re-installation, my attention was drawn to the cover plate at the bottom of the gear box. I've always experienced oil leaks, and I've always wondered why...?

Anyway I concluded it was due to some degree to uneven expansion rates between the steel cover plate and aluminium transfer casing.

So I decided that an aluminium cover plate was in order. I reckoned that maybe the way to go was to cast one from scrap aluminium,

complete with cooling ribs to the outside.

I was pleased with the result but it took 3 attempts before I got it right. Hopefully that's the last of oil leaks in that area..!

Norm.

Like the Rocky Mountain ones?

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PICTURES!!!! did you get any pictures of the casting process, i have only ever cast things at school and really enjoyed it, I cast and machined a little g cramp and a couple of other bits.[/quote

Unfortunately I didn't get any photos during the casting process but I have got photos of the finished article, which I will post in use course..!

Briefly, closely following a design by Gingery, I constructed a forge from a five gallon oil drum. Originally his idea was to use charcoal, but what a pain I kept running out of charcoal, in the end I changed over to gas, much more convenient and easier to use.

Moulding sand I used was made up of play sand with 20% bentonite as a binder. The pattern was made up from plywood, dowels ,

and body filler. Manufacture of the pattern proved to be the most labour intensive. Pouring was a bit of an anti- climax.

Temperature of the melt proved to be crucial, my first attempt was too hot the second was too cold, the third after monitoring the temp by a $7-00 instrument and a $12-00 thermocouple, to approx. 740C was perfect.

The scrap ally I used was limited to items which had been previous cast in a former life.

I'm also using the technique to cast the frames of lockers to be mounted behind the mudguards but that is very much a work in progress.

Anyway I'll sort those photos out.

Norm.

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Like the Rocky Mountain ones?

I had no idea that Rocky Mountains did one, but yes it's very similar to the flat one ..!

Norm.

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post-69808-0-48421400-1412719911_thumb.jpgHi Guys,

Attached is photo of my transfer case cover.

To the left is plywood pattern, in yellow, next top centre is attempt No.2, in which the melt was too cold, and on the right is the finished article in Blue hammertone.

No prizes for guessing that the bottom centre is the original.

Norm.

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Wow!!

G.

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the golden question...

has it stopped that darned annoying leak??

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The last t/f box plate I did I spend AGES hammering it so that the stud holes were lower than the surrounding mating surface, in the hope that it would put more pressure on the gasket.

No complaints so far.

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