kevindawes Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Does anyone know of a company near London who would be able to check/set my valve timing? I'm not sure if mine is right as the timing chain (adjustable) was fitted by someone else and when I set up the VR sensor against the timing marks on the block it just didn't work (trigger wheel wouldn't align). When I experimented with a screwdriver popped in the spark plug #1 hole to find TDC and then I lined up the wheel and vr sensor it worked. It then didn't line up with the TDC marks on the block - it was about a inch out to the right of the mark. The engine runs and starts ok but honestly I'm a bit dispappointed with power so I'm wondering if my timimg off - I'm just not sure (confident) on how to get it spot on so methinks I need some professional help (probably me and the motor to be honest). Also, how do you know if the EDIS is working (advancing) and not in limp mode? Many thanks in advance for pearls of wisdom. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Timing chain won't make a difference to the position of the marks on the crank pulley, suggest that the timing pointer is wrong (a WELL known problem on V8s...) Suggest you use the actual TDC measured in cylinder #1 with a dial gauge or some sort of stop stuck in the plug hold, that contacts the piston. wind one way, mark pulley, wind other way, mark pulle, TDC is in the middle of the two marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Also, how do you know if the EDIS is working (advancing) and not in limp mode? Using a timing light, surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevindawes Posted September 12, 2014 Author Share Posted September 12, 2014 Thanks for the replies. I'm clear on the timing marks now, I think I'll be close but I'll get a dial gauge and make sure I'm spot on. I'll check the VR sensor again and make sure it aligns exactly as well. Checking that against what ms thinks seems well documented so I'll read and work through that next. So if I connect the timing light and rev the engine the strobe mark will move, sorry if this is basic and common sense to you all but for me I'm not certain - if I'm shown once I can normally understand how it works and do it myself from there, - I've never messed around with ignition before until I fitted ms. Saying that I don't think I did a bad job as I've just returned in the 90 from off-roading in the Spanish hills near Zaragoza where it was hot and very bumpy and the ms install never missed a beat. The engine got a bit hot, near 100 but it was totally reliable and I got double the fuel economy compared to the last time I went which I'm really happy about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Yes the marks should move as you rev, hopefully something similar to your spark table? You can offset the timing somewhere in megasquirt if it doesn't quite match the engine if you can't get the trigger wheel to match exactly but I can't remember where off the top of my head. Sounds like your already better at it than me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 You trim the timing here: But note that TRIM is NOT effective when you set a fixed angle. I set the spark map to all 10's (or at least in the bottom/idle corner) and THEN trim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevindawes Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 So in summary, is my checklist below correct? 1. Check tdc with a dial gauge and mark the correct position on the timing mark plate 2. Set the trim table to 10 degrees 3. Connect the timing light 3. Start the engine 4. Set the timing gun to 10 degrees 5. Adjust the trim angle on the laptop until the timing light lines up with my newly set tdc mark. 6. Once set burn to ecu 7. Reset spark map to standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazza Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I asked a similar question when fitting Megajolt to my Alpine and the answer given then, was that the EDIS automatically defaults to 10 degrees BTDC when in limp-home mode. So; start the engine with only the EDIS connected and check the timing with a timing-light; if the mark is not exactly on 10 degrees, adjust it with the trim-value until it is in the right place. Trim allows for small errors in installation, etc. Cheers Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Chazza - if the EDIS is in limp mode, the trim angle setting will not have any effect. It only gets added by the MS when running normally from the spark table. Hence why my suggestion is to set the bottom left cells of the spark map to all 10's and then adjust trim angle until the timing light matches the value in the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Not sure if I'm misreading you but surely altering the trim angle with the edis disconnected will not alter the timing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazza Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Chazza - if the EDIS is in limp mode, the trim angle setting will not have any effect. It only gets added by the MS when running normally from the spark table. Yes, agreed - I didn't write my explanation well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevindawes Posted September 28, 2014 Author Share Posted September 28, 2014 The dial gauge I bought is too short. Guess I may have improvise and try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Extend it with a piece of wire, that's what you just do with them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Sorry to drag this up again! It's been 2 years since I squirted my 110 & I never got around to sorting the timing out correctly. Been having a bit of a refresher as to what I need to do & came across this thread. Quick question, if i set the value of all the cells in the spark table to 10 degrees & check timing with a strobe should the TDC mark line up or do i need another mark 10 degrees off to the side & align that one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 At 10 degrees on ms when looking at the markings at the front pulley with a strobe the pointer should point to 10. If you use the method of sticking something through the plug hole then the mid point should be 0 or tdc on the marks at the front pulley. You can get a disk with angles on that goes on a socket to help find the mid point if your looking to buy a tool or just mark and measure? To make a stop as suggested above I guess you could weld something onto an old spark plug? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Thanks for that. Just to be 100% clear is that 10 before or after TDC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Spark should be before TDC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rutthenut Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 You trim the timing here: But note that TRIM is NOT effective when you set a fixed angle. I set the spark map to all 10's (or at least in the bottom/idle corner) and THEN trim. Ah, that final comment helps a lot. My trigger appears to be out by about two degrees, when checking with static 10 deg value it is actually running at 12 deg BTDC. If I set it to 8 in TunerStudio then it shows up on timing light where I want it, at 10 degrees actual. Tried putting in adjustments to that field above and seemed to make no difference. Put in bigger adjustments, yep, no change. Thought I was doing something wrong. From your comment above, that is expected behaviour. Not sure if I need to put in 2 degrees, or -2 degrees to get it right (8 degrees static setup actually gets 10 degrees timing). From my description, do you think it should be a +ve or -ve adjustment? Guess that changing the map as you say to work with static 10 deg and put in an offset, I should then see the effect. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I can never remember which way the trim angle goes, easiest to hook the timing light up and adjust till it's right. Also this may help people - print it out & stick it to the crank pulley: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I did exactly that, but with a different diagram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rutthenut Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I can never remember which way the trim angle goes, easiest to hook the timing light up and adjust till it's right. Fair enough. I'd think that if static 10 BTDC is actually 12 BTDC, then I probably have to specify -2 to get 10 deg BTDC, but if wrong, that makes if 4 degrees out. Will take your advice and create a temporary timing map with 10 degree settings and tweek the trim figure to get it where I want it. Thanks for comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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