tuko Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Being unable to roll steel for anti coning rings I'm searching for ideas of alternative methods for anti coning rings/spacers. I have talked with a guy who makes beadlock rings and he's told me that he uses 12~13mm steel height/width for the anti coning rings. So knowing this height, I've been looking for alternative ideas ie; washers/spacers. Obviously there has been a few redneck solutions of building up a spacer with washers between the rings but that being way to heavy and the numbers of washers used. I even found that they used solid rubber cord, even though I do wonder how long that will stay in place and hold. This has got me thinking, why not nylon spacers (PTFE) between the rings. ie: 20mm OD, 8mm ID, 12~13mm H. Is there any other solutions/ideas for "homemade" for anti coning rings that doesn't add too much weight but is just as effective? Todd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 From the look of things it would seem doable with a bit of care to shape a length of metal into a ring that fits, given you have a round thing of the correct diameter to hand to bend it round / clamp it to / tack it in place without special rolling tools. Using a length of rubber or nylon does seem preferable somehow, if you can get something suitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuko Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 I'm worried that if I attempted to shape a length of metal that it would not be ideally round which would lead to an unbalanced wheel for driving. The idea of nylon (PTFE) spacers, if they have a section width greater than a normal washer I seem to think that it would be better suited plus a weight saver..... marginal ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Why not look for some of the thicker and larger diameter PVC water/gas main pipe? We had some storm ducting that was 1" thick by 400mm diameter for a road reconstruction job. Certainly worth looking up technical plastic and PVC pipe specs, then just roll by a civil engineering yard to see if they have an off cut for a couple of shillings? Cutting it square could be done easy enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 In my experience, by the time you've got beadlocks and big chunky tyres and all that, the finer points of wheel balancing have gone by the wayside long ago, or there's not enough room for wheel weights to ever bring it back. As Nigel says, could be worth a nose at an industrial/construction pipe supplier, you might find an offcut of pipe (or a metal flange) that will fit the bill. Then again, I can't imagine it would be extortionate to get a bit of metal or nylon cut or made in a circle by a local fabricator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuko Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 These here came up on an offroad site for sale yesterday in Goteborg considerably cheaper than what the guy paid for them, which I promptly bought. Using something that was round would be preferred but there would be exposure issues between the bolts therefore the idea of nylon spacers between the plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 a v style fan belt works in this application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I turned up a set of nylon spacers. From memory they were dia 20mm bar, with holes to clear the M10 bolts we used. We worked out a height of 17mm for our setup, but this varies between each brand of tyre. It takes a long time machine 96 off on a manual machine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuko Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 I was thinking along the same lines also Mickey but the idea of cutting 104 spacers......no thanks! I found a supplier in China that will produce the nylon spacers (PTFE) in the dimensions that I wrote above for usd 0.33 each plus usd 32 charge for mold fee. How did they last for you? Any issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I was thinking along the same lines also Mickey but the idea of cutting 104 spacers......no thanks!Thats why I suggested pipe, only gotta lay a ring on it and drill it out, think it'll go faster than individual blocks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuko Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 Nigel, your suggest may turn out to be easier and cheaper. I won't order anything quickly, I will ask around and see what I can come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I think Daan's suggestion of a V belt is the cheapest, simplest and least labour intensive. You can buy V belts in almost any length and any thickness and having a bit of "give" in them keeps the bolts tight. Being a continuous item it will also help keep carp and water out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuko Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 One thing that I'm unsure of with v-belts is which way to use it? Does the thickest side go inwards, I'm assuming so but have to ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I assume thick side in??? Out of curiosity, what percentage squash are you aiming for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I think Daan has just won top marks for that suggestion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Use short lengths of pipe and weld them on, ignore the ring I welded in there thats for a bit of silly fun.... This is a set I made ages ago they are alot more involved lol I machined a 5 degree seat into the flat bar and a recess on the other side to protect the cap screws As was said earlier the width depends on the tyre you plan to fit, the bead thickness and shape changes with brands and even different models of tyre from the same company.... in this case it was 15mm, another thing to be awear of is there is a soft inner lip to the base of the bead... this is there to help seal the bead to the rim, alot of guys cut this off to square up the bead before they clamp it... it can cause the ring to buckle in (I machined a taper into the ring to compensate) My advice give up any notion of them being balanced or driving them at speed.... I'm speaking from experience here, I borrowed a mates balancing machine, welded weight into the rims to balance (can't remember what we took it down to tolerance wise), they had all been dti'd to less than .5mm run out, the beadlock ring has a 5 degree seating slope to center the bead (same as a pressed rim).... lol I did everything I could think of..... the end result after we fitted new 35" tyres the first wheel we balanced required over 350g of lead stickers lol... we didn't even bother with the rest.... yes i do know that if I had bothered to re-seat the tyres we could have got them to balance given they were offroad only we didn't bother lol 5 wheels, 36 bolts a wheel tightened concentrically in stages trust me fitting them once is a big enough job! My point is i took the time to make a bead centering beadlock rim that was balanced and running true.... now because I didn't bother to tighten the rim properly it still managed to be that far out it required a huge amount of weight now what your planing on building isn't going to have that centering effect at best you'll get the spacers to touch the bead not stretch it and align it, so give up the idea of balance and build some strength... I'd suggest steel hoops bend them around the inner depression of the rim the spring back makes them about the right dia its what i did with the ones above Oh and I'm going to poo poo Dans idea, nothing personal I just don't think its a good idea.... consider the mechanics, you have two 6mm (1/4") plates held together by at a guess 36 6mm bolts.... there is nothing behind the bolts (on the center side of the rim) so the bead is placing these bolts in a bending motion.... placing a piece of reinforce rubber on the levering side of things I see as only making the situation worse.... he needs something to counter the lever motion something on the other side so the bolts do what they are designed to do and clamp.... bit of steel pipe on each bolt so they bottom out Oh and just a tip on that, to get the compression of your tyre bead, again not all tyres are the same lol I made up a little scrap clamp that had half a dozen bolts at the spacing I then started with a bit of tube at a guess on compression clamped the bead and torqued the screws till max setting for a stainless M6 bolt and filed the tubes till I got the center two to bottom out on the tubes with still a turn left till max torque.... this way the bolts are in tension and the bead is as secure as I can make it Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I think Daan has just won top marks for that suggestion! Cheers, But I can do one better: get bead locks that don't cone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuko Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 @De Ranged Thanks for your explanation. I have 255/85 Km2's that I will be using with these beadlock rings. The rims well I'm still undecided as I have the tires today on Wolf rims (tubeless) but I have an old original set of Defender steel rims (tube) that I might use. Balancing I have done some reading over at Pirates 4x4 so that plan will be to use BB's. According to a site I was on a while back I will need 200g BB's per tire. I agree with the concept for anti cone, but welding small pipe pieces, 26 per rim is a tedious task that I don't have any intentions of doing. But I have ordered from a supplier 120 pieces of hard nylon spacers, 20mm OD*8.5mm ID*13mm H. I've decided to take this route with the spacers as they provide uniformity and being lighter. Getting back to balancing, I'm under the impression that using BB's in the tires it will start off with vibrations then when you get up to a certain speed (unknown exactly to me) that the BB's will settle into the position that they are required and everything should smooth out. Fingers crossed! I plan to test this theory, if it's doesn't satisfy me sufficiently than I'll simply trailer the tires to each event that I attend. Todd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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