garrycol Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I have just returned from a 3500km outback NSW trip in my 101 where it ran very well including 850km on the last day. However on strarting the car up the day after I returned, the engine was missing a bit and there was a vibration from the engine. I checked it out today and found the electronic dizzy was full of dust possibly causing issues with the airgap in the pick up - cleaning the dust out seems to have fixed the miss but the vibration was still there. On investigating further I noticed the front crankshaft pulley was wobbling around a bit and one of the mounts of the secondary 12v alternator that I have (in additon to the 24v alterntor) was loose. I tightened this up and retensioned the belt (water pump) and restarted ans while not as bad there is still a major wobble in the pully. So I guess the damper component has seperated from the rest but I haven't pulled it off yet. Any tricks in removing the hand crank dog that doubles as the crankshaft bolt? Also any ideas on what else might be damaged?? All these parts are unique to the 24v 101 so are not common with 12v 3.5 V8 engine so I want to minimise what has to be replaced. Thanks Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrycol Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 Also - anyone know what size socket that goes on the front crank pulley bolt. It need to be long to fit over the starter dog but is deep inside the pullkey so i cannot get in to take measurements. I will need to buy a socket but not sure what size to get. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrycol Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 The bolt is 1 5/16" and I managed to find a suitable socket that will fit. The most likely issue is the harmonic balancer has failed - it is supposedly unique to the 101 but Craddock seems to think they are the same as the normal 3.5 engines. I hope they are right as the 101 version is no longer available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrycol Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 The rubber bit of the harmonic balancer is fine but the key way is not so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 oooh nasty! Guess your timing marks have been a bit out recently(!) New pulley then... I can't see how you'd repair that...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrycol Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 Since I changed to electronic ignition I haven't needed to time the engine - but yes would cause an issue. An issue only just became obvious, so the pulley has only just started moving around - but that damage is old so I assume that at some stage in the past the keyway was chewed out and the then owner was not in a position to repair/change so so loctited/bearing fitted the pulley in the correct position and then overtorqued the bolt and it has stayed in the correct position for the 7 years I have owned the vehicle and it has just let go. Before my last trip I tightened up a long loose belt and that may have prompted the movement - the torque from the bolt and the loctite was not enough to hold it in place. I suspect there is a bit of wear between the harmonic balancer and that is what the wobble was. New harmonic balancers are not available though a well know supplier seems to think they are the same as 12v engines which they are not - they also want nearly £500 for the bit which is a bit over the top. I could rekey the balancer but I have managed to locate a good used balancer and will put that in. Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrycol Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 I bought a used supposed 101 pulley but it is just a standard 3.5 pulley and does not fit. The 101 pulley is the one on the left of the pic So I either repair the old harmonic balancer or try and find another. Anyone know where I could find a 24v 3.5v8 101 harmonic balancer - I have drawn a blank on all the usual sources. Thanks Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I checked the usual ex-MOD suspects over here, but nothing has come up, I am suspicious though that you just need a different pulley, and they may well not be specific to the 101... Bit more digging and looks to me like you may want the series LR V8 damper, part no: ERC5462 This sort of thing: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-GENUINE-LAND-ROVER-VIBRATION-DAMPER-3-5-V8-SERIES-DEFENDER-RRC-PN-ERC5462-/161640936640?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item25a28cf4c0 and: http://www.johnrichardssurplus.co.uk/crankshaft-pulley-damper-v8-erc5462.html https://www.lrdirect.com/ERC5462-Damper-Vibration/ http://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/land-rover-parts/erc5462-genuine-lr-vibration-damper-109-v8-90-110-and-rrc.html Lots more once you search by the part #, I expect you'll be able to find something locally though It appears what you have is pulley off V8 CAR as opposed to LR. Hope that helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrycol Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 Thanks for that information but ERC5462 is the damper shown on the right in my pic and is not correct. The damper that is fitted to my 24v 101, (the one on the left) is a match to the diagram in the 101 parts book. The parts book indicates which parts are unique and indicate the balancer is unique - the part number is 613669. It also shows that the pulley on the 24v is unique but the 12v pulley is the same as normal 12v engines. Craddocks and John Richards indicate that ERC5462 is a direct replacement for 613669 but as you can see in my pic they are completely different (and my balancer matches the one in the parts book - ERC5462 does not). Mine does not match the pic on the John Richards site as well. I appreciate your efforts in trying to help. Cheers Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Odd, the Richards one looks like the LH one, at least to me? Checked the parts catalogue, here: http://www.landroverweb.com/Pdf-files/Manuals/Land_Rover_101_parts_catalogue.pdf Page 30/09 lists the 'vibration damper' as being the same as the 12V version, the pulleys that bolt on are different thought, to get the dual belt drive up to the alternator. Part number confirmed as 663619. I think the one you have been sent is just the wrong damper, find a 101FC 12V damper and you should be OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrycol Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 I think the one you have been sent is just the wrong damper, find a 101FC 12V damper and you should be OK. Thanks - open for suggestions on where to get one - I have drawn a blank. I have asked Craddocks and Richards for their thoughts. If all else fails it has been suggested I turn out the inside of the balancer and press in a sleeve with the key way cut inot it - so that is an option. Cheers Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Well the point I was (badly) trying to make, was that whilst the chap says the pulley he sold you was for a FC, it clearly isn't, but one ordered under the proper part number should be OK... The proper part number being either ERC5462 or 663619. Sorry, brain not really awake properly today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrycol Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Yes I follow - the pic on the Richards site of ERC5462 is the same item than was sent to me. The pic on Richards site of ERC5462 is not the same item as Part 613669 the 101 harmonic balancer. I assume your number 663619 is a typo. The Ricards ERC5462 The 101 613669 - definitely different to ERC5462 And the one I was sent - looks like ERC5462 but not sure - the actually rubber balancer section is the same but not sure if the length of the flange that goes over the crank is the same length - too hard to compare. No response from Craddocks or Richards at this stage - nor my seller of the balancer I was sent. Any way - the truck is being parked up and I will pull the engine out next week (putting in a 4.6) and when the engine is out I will work out what I am going to do. I haven't decided yet but I might need these for the 4.6 if I stay V belt. Cheers garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 You should keep the serp cover on the 4.6, especially the better oil pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Agreed, once you have serp, you will love not having to wrestle with 4 belts and multiple adjusters all the time. I was looking at the length of the stub, and I thought it looked the same as your current one, a long version. I agree the balancer part is a slightly different shape, but the main problem is the length, I thought? Anyways, good luck with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrycol Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Just got a response back from John Richards. "Thank you for your enquiry. Sorry we do not have a pulley 613669, odd that our suppliers and other companies on the web list this item as S/S to ERC5462. We have compared the 2 as we have a good used one and can see their is a difference in design between the 2. 613669 are now obsolete so not sure where you would find one sorry." So it looks like someone has made a mistake and others have followed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Doh! Well at least you got to the bottom of it, what about getting them to ship you the good second hand one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 If you have ID'd the correct part number then try people like Dunsfold, P.A. Blanchard. They hold a lot of new old stock stuff, helped me out sourcing a series steering relay shaft (also now obsolete and NLA from Land Rover). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrycol Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 Thanks for the comments - cheers - Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete3000 Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Just an idea, could you get a machine shop or friendly engineer to build up the wear with tig/mig, then bore the Inside Diameter on the lathe, then broach/mill a new keyway. That is if the damper is good.... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogsbreath7@yahoo.com Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 The short shaft is for a serp setup. The long snout is vbelt v8 I have the same two parts sitting out under the hood of my 1990 RRC with the long one reemed as yours is. The part numbers are right. You were sent err3442 for a 3.9 serpentine engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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