cackshifter Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Was going home from work a couple of nights ago when I thought it had jumped out of gear on a roundabout. Fiddled with gearsticks and managed to make it move only for the same thing to happen a couple of moments later on a subsequent roundabout, accompanied by expensive gnashing noises from it and "B*gger" from me. So I parked it up and waited for the RAC. This weekend is the post mortem, my first thoughts are the mainshaft splines have departed, but then I wondered if it was anything else - drive flange, CV. Pretty sure the gearbox area was the origin of the noise. Anything else I should be looking at? Is this in line with what I should be looking at. If it is the mainshaft, it's done 180k so I don't bear it any grudges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 tie it back to a tree, set it in gear, get out and look underneath. but please dont get underneath it! if a prop is spinning, you have an axle problem. if nothing, it is a gearbox/transfer box problem. would be safer if you had someone to sit in the car while you looked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_s Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 if you try and drive and you hear grinding, put the transfer box into neutral and try again, if the noise goes it might not be the main gearbox, although the lack of load might make the noise go. try driving in difflock, does it now move? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Need to try it in difflock first to see if it will move then. If it does then it's quite likely rear driveline issues, either drive flange splines or half shaft. If it doesn't then there's a good chance it's gearbox. If it's a genuine 300 it should have an R380, and I thought they were a lot better for the main shaft splines. If you've had main shaft issue's though, you'd have been experiencing a pronouced clunk on taking up drive and if you're a bit quick on the gear changes - my 109 suffers exactly that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 Ok, thanks guys,at present it's half way up (or maybe down) a steep hill, as far up as the RAC could drop it so to be honest my first challenge is get it to the top where my garage is. I think I might try it in low 1st, if it says not the tirfor will be called upon. Good point to watch the props, I'm married but not life insured so not in her interest to run me over, so I'll get SWMBO to sit in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 Yes it's gen 300, 1997 vintage, and as far as I know it's all original, and it's definitely an R380. I was a bit surprised when it happened, there hasn't been any clunking (and I know what that's like, I also have a 110 which had that problem), and AFAIK the engine is standard. I suppose the middle could have come out of the clutch, but there was no warning of anything. I did once have the flywheel drop off the crank on an Austin Maxi half way across a French main road, and it was similar thing, loss of drive. I'll post when I know what's what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 try it in difflock to move it as stated above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 my 50p is on a drive member - pop the rubber caps and get the other half in the drivers seat while you have a look . they do sometimes make a racket and also shuttle driveline vibes back to the centre diff which then makes lots of noise It does seem more common on 300 than 200tdi defenders , not sure why that is , probably Value Engineering ...... cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 It could be that the splines on your output shaft have worn away - ergo no drive to the transfer box, a common problem on the early R380 gearbox - the solution is to cross drill the input gear in the transfer box to increase the lubrication of the input splines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 Ok well it's definitely not an axle problem. The grinding happens even in main box neutral unless the foot is on the clutch, and in all gears. There is no attempt at movement even in difflock. My money is on the splines, but before investigating I have to get it moved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 may well be something to do with the clutch plate then? it may have disintegrated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 Right well, if there's anyone interested I managed to get it winched up the hill onto my drive, and finally managed to get time to have look, and it seems to be the clutch plate. I think Discomikey is spot on. The mainshaft splines seem to be in rude health - there weren't any clunks, and it has a cross drilled input gear, which I've just had out. When you start the engine the mainshaft doesn't turn even in 4th or if it does,slightly backwards. But that nasty noise remains unless the clutch pedal is depressed, and in any gear. It seems unlikely all the dog clutches failed utterly and simultaneously so unless the spigot shaft has snapped it's got to be the clutch. I wasn't being rough with it, honest. However it's got 180k on the clock, I got it at 155, that's probably the second clutch, and so it could have been in quite a while. They normally slip or something first, not just die silently. Anyway I was planning to do it the engine out way, I'm not a fan of lifting gearboxes from under the car, so I'll probably just make a start and pray it isn't a gearbox thing and I have to have that out as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 sounds like you're diagnosis is right , I'd go for it , and if by some random bad luck it is the gearbox then it's easy to remove it with the engine out - also an opportunity to check all the core plugs and oil seals/gaskets keep us updated Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 I won't be rushing it, I quite fancy H from H's clutch kits and he seems to be away for a fortnight's sun sea and sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 If we're lucky we'll probably get to see him on 'Sun, Sea and A&E' on a screen near you any day soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 Further to my imminent clutch change, I want to change the spigot bearing and probably the rear oil seal on the engine as well. Is that possible in the gap created by pulling the gearboxes back(bearing in mind I'm not a gynaecologist with the strength of King Kong) or should I stick with my original engine out plan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 On a 300 tdi it should be fairly simple to change the seal in that space, but the spigot bush can be a pig sometimes you can get away with filling the hole with grease, finding a snug fitting socket and short extension (or a short 1/2" drive extension backwards should be a good fit, and hammer it in, the hydraulic action sometimes is enough to press the old one out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Having done all the jobs you have coming up cackshifter, I would remove the engine every time. It's not difficult on a tdi and you give yourself plenty of room to work and inspect. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 Thanks Mo, engine out it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppy Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Just to add my two penn'orth: I had a clutch centre disintegrate in exactly the way you describe. No warning, just a crunch and then complete loss of drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 Ok well, I finally managed to get the engine out (I wasn't doing it all this time, I did have other things to do). The clutch was a Valeo with the 8 springs in the clutch plate and the springs seems to have come loose. It hadn't disintegrated as such, but the middle turns without turning the outside, so that would do it. Two of the springs were actually pointing front to back. There was plenty of meat on the linings, and no sign of heat. Pressure plate, release bearing, fork and flywheel looked fine. The bellhousing was full of metal chips where the springs had rubbed. But, the good news was having taken off the flywheel there was no oil leak from the rear main, but there was a lot of dust and chips to clean up. The bad news was I noticed while the engine was out the turbo needs a rebuild judging from the lateral wobble on the shaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 The turbo will have lateral shaft movement stationary - the oil pressure when running fills the clearance between the shaft and the white metal bearing , that and heat expansion . If the vanes are not in contact with the housing then all should be good . A sheared clutch centre is not uncommon but an easy fix cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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