skirky dave Posted September 16, 2016 Author Share Posted September 16, 2016 Right, ok,,,,So if i'm reading and understanding you correctly........Before i place the rocker shaft in place, i should slacken ALL the tappets off by their adjuster/ clearance screws,..THEN , as you suggest, Start with the big bolts in the middle by just nipping them up followed by the smaller bolts. Then Start torquing the big bolts and lastly the smaller ones. After which,..i can then start setting the tappet gaps. There would also appear, to be a debate as to just exactly what is the correct gap setting. For what i can gather, it's 10thou. Some say 9thou. Typical weather this morning in sunny Sheffield.....Raining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Always undo the adjusters when replacing the pushrods. They may be fractionally longer/shorter than the old ones. Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirky dave Posted September 16, 2016 Author Share Posted September 16, 2016 Right you are Les, We'll do. Just need it to stop raining.....no garage mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 2 hours ago, skirky dave said: Right, ok,,,,So if i'm reading and understanding you correctly........Before i place the rocker shaft in place, i should slacken ALL the tappets off by their adjuster/ clearance screws,..THEN , as you suggest, Start with the big bolts in the middle by just nipping them up followed by the smaller bolts. Then Start torquing the big bolts and lastly the smaller ones. After which,..i can then start setting the tappet gaps. There would also appear, to be a debate as to just exactly what is the correct gap setting. For what i can gather, it's 10thou. Some say 9thou. Typical weather this morning in sunny Sheffield.....Raining. Exactly. Tappet clearance is 0.25mm. I'm not sure what that is in inches, but it'd be the same as the 2.25s, and I think I recall seeing a red plate on a rocker cover once with 10thou on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirky dave Posted September 16, 2016 Author Share Posted September 16, 2016 Hi Snagger, Ok, cheers for that mate. Just one more thing i'm a little confused over!!.....Do i re/fit the rockers FIRST and then have a crack at the timing belt,... OR..Do i fit the timing belt first AND THEN the rockers. Which would be the easiest way to start. Cheers . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 I would do the tappets first as it would be easier to turn the cam in order to set the gap rather than turn the whole engine via the crank. Just make sure none of the pistons are at TDC when you do it. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirky dave Posted September 17, 2016 Author Share Posted September 17, 2016 Morning Les, OK, bit confused here Les, BUT..before i explain why.....I was reading a few threads regarding the checking of tappets and what to look for. Well,..i was certainly in for a shock. After checked mine, i noticed DEEP circular dents on the foot of the lobe, Which is the part the feeler gauge measures . Sorry if my description is wrong but i'm sure you know the part i mean. Certainly can't afford to be buying new Tappets,Rocker Shaft etc at the moment. However...i then checked the tappets from the 19J TD engine and these all look OK. No wear that i can see at all. All uniform. But, just to be sure about the unit as a whole is ok, i thought i would strip it down, clean the oilways etc etc,, but how on earth are you supposed to take it appart. Can't find a youtube video describing how to strip down/ rebuild one. ..................................... Also,..Why make sure non of the pistons are at TDC, i can only think because it could bend a pushrod. If my train of thought is correct. Cheers Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Belt first to set the timing, then fit the rocker shaft and do the tappets after the shaft it torqued down. This way, the rockers are not present and all valves fully retracted while turning the shafts around for alignment, so no chance of bending anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 The circular dents will most likely have been caused by the absence of valve caps. When these are missing the top of the valve stem hammers a hole in the rocker lobe and also hammers over the top of the valve stem. The rocker assembly can be dismantled, but you have to take care that you reassemble it correctly. Take lots of pictures as you dismantle it as referring to them when you put it back together will be a great help. Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 "fit the rocker shaft and do the tappets after the shaft it torqued down. This way, the rockers are not present " Eh? Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirky dave Posted September 17, 2016 Author Share Posted September 17, 2016 Well,....getting back to this forum has been a ROYAL PAIN, 12 times i.ve tried throughout the day and zilch. Anyway...Hi guys. The timing belt is on...at long last! but can't start her up until tomorrow.. Need Bigger Torque Wrench. My only concern/worry is that the Sherpa's timing mark is correct ( arrow to dot). I read somewhere, that the Sherpa's fuel pump was calibrated differently to that of the Land Rover's,which, maybe, is why the Sherpa's timing is to the F mark, On the pump timing wheel it looks like.. F 1 . SO F LINE DOT.. I remember once before, a friend of mine had timed the Sherpa's timing to the DOT and it sounded terrible and after talking to a mate of his who also ran a Sherpa, he confirmed it had to be timed to the F mark. This we did and it sound spot on Could this be , because the Sherpa has the longer timing belt and the additional idler, i don't know. Hope i don't have to re set the pump again and set it to the F mark. My fingers are crossed. Oh, and before i forget....B&Q are doing 5lts 20/50 for £10,50, in case anyone's interested. Cheers guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 8 hours ago, Les Henson said: "fit the rocker shaft and do the tappets after the shaft it torqued down. This way, the rockers are not present " Eh? Les Read the whole of the first sentence, not just the last half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 The 15J has a completely different timing case with different pump position, so the timing indices could be anywhere. Definitely use the spot, not the F for a 12J or 19J. Les is right about the rocker wear. Valve stemns are harder than rocker pads and tend to eat into them. LR made stemn caps, which are like hollowed out mushroom heads with a flat spot, which sit on top of the stems and spread the load over more of the pad, reducing wear. They are also softer than the pad, made to be sacrificial. Last time I bought some, they cost 82p each. You need 8, they're identical for inlet and exhaust valves, and any LR supplier will be able to get them in if they don't already stock them. As for the rockers themselves, since the 19J rockers are in good order, soak the shaft in diesel and clean it with a brush, working the rockers to get dirt out, check the tappets (swap with the 15J's in the unlikely event that they're better) and fit that to the engine - the shaft assemblies are identical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirky dave Posted September 18, 2016 Author Share Posted September 18, 2016 Morning guys, SNAGGER...What time did YOU get up this morning???., Before the worms by the sound of it!!!. Right,ok i shall check the 19j's motor first for the caps. Didn't cross my mind about those cap things. Havn't seen them on the Sherpa's so, as Les says, that's probably the cause of the damage to the Sherpa's rockers. The dents are quite deep. I should imagine they would give me a bit of grief trying to get the feeler gauges to read correctly. As suggested, i shall take photo's of the rockers and give them a good soak in Diesel. Got an old toothbrush to give them a good scrub up. That might give me a( ring of confidence) as Colgate used to say. Sorry. I was looking at replacing these in a couple of months time. My partner Sue, retires soon, (Teacher) and she said " if you want, i'll buy you some new one's for your b'day" After i've retired. So i looked up a company called Turner Engineering in Surrey. £150.00 for complete set of rockers and shaft. ( NOT BRITPART). Company seems to have a really good reputation. Until then...I shall fit this lot and take my time, cleaning bits etc, and then in a day or two, start her up and see how she sounds. 8.30 AM now, and itching to get at the other engine to see about the caps. Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 6 hours ago, Snagger said: Read the whole of the first sentence, not just the last half. Well I did. How can you fit the rocker shaft, set the tappets, and then say that the rockers are not present? I might be being a bit blonde here:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Belt first was preceding that comment 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirky dave Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 Morning guys, So...i Stripped and cleaned the J19 td rocker shaft and although the j19's rocker's look far better than the Sherpa's, the j19 rocker shaft is so badly worn, with indents/ridges over the entire length of the shaft, Trying to remove the larger pedestals was a pain, stuck solid and i mean solid. The 19j engine had obviously suffered catastrophic damage at some point,.. BUT, i already knew this, which is why it was cheap, I only needed bits of it, .................................................................................. So,. to changing the rockers over to the Sherpa's rocker shaft. I took some shots of the shaft and the order that things fit. Applied fresh oil to the component parts and started putting it back together. During this process, the phone never stopped ringing..typical and i may have incorrectly replaced a certain part,..because now, with the engines timing marks lined up,,The Second Pedestal, The one with the additional screw fitted, Refuses to sit down square on the engine. If you stand at the front of the engine, it's the SECOND pedestal going towards the bulkhead that's causing the problem, the additional screw won't line up right, and when it does, the unit seems to be on the cockle, I think that one of two things might be happening here, either i have put the wrong one on,from the old unit or..i might have have to turn the crankshaft away from TDC.to get this to fit. I don't know......it's a bit of a mystery at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 The two rocker assemblies are the same, so you can mix and match parts. Rocker shafts do tend to wear on one side of the shaft where the rockers are. A common trick is to rotate the shaft 90 deg and refit. This eliminates unwanted play in the rockers as an alternative to buying a new shaft. While the rockers can be removed with little effort, you have to knock the pillars off. You really need to learn to post pictures. I can only make a wild guess on what "the unit seems to be on the cockle" means. Pictures are a great help most of the time. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 If it is anything at all like a Rover V8 rocker shaft, the pillars can be warmed gently with a blowlamp and this allows much easier removal. Les: probably 'on the cock' but the forum software will probably replace that! Means a bit wonky down 'ere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirky dave Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 Les.. Yes , I see what you mean and i shall give that a go, maybe when i fitted the ends, somehow i managed to twist the shaft itself a millimetre or two. I shall re/check. As for posting pictures..their still giving me grief. However i shall persevere. Bowie 69,,,,,yep!!! that's what me mean in Yorkshire mate. And......it's,..... RAINING AGAIN!!!!!!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirky dave Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 don't know if this has worked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirky dave Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 needed cleaning this was a total mess!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirky dave Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 As you can see guys, I'm just learning how to post images,,,but I'm getting there!! We all have to learn!. Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 In my previous post 90deg should be 180 deg (sorry). The inside of that timing cover is the worst I've ever seen. Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirky dave Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 As you can see, there is a lot of wear on the Sherpa's Rockers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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