basquen Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Hi,My 300tdi EDC Jap import has 200000km on the clock. My last timing belt did approx 75000 km without any problems. It didn't look particularly tired when it was replaced 10 months ago. The new timing belt just gave up after only 14000km. The parts use were all correct (cross-checked against VIN) and the tension was set as per the workshop manual. So this weekend we're about to fit a new belt but I'm still bothered as to why the previous one broke. On inspection is has worn along one edge (towards front of vehicle) and finally snapped across its width which suggest an alignment issue. The two pulleys on the the tensioner are fine, the crankshaft pulley is firmly in place (Woodruff key and it's slot are both in good condition). The camshaft pulley is OK. However, I have a doubt concerning the fuel injection pump pulley. The 3 bolts that hold the pulley to the hub are tight as is the centre nut that holds the hub to the shaft. There is however a slight movement on the pulley (less than 1mm) when grasped by hand. Could this be the culprit or is a minimal movement normal on these pumps? If this was a road wheel it would indicate a problem with the bearings. Microcat just shows the complete pump Is there a bearing that can fail on the pump shaft? Any help or ideas would be much appreciated ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangy35 Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Did you fit a complete new timing belt kit? That includes the belt, crank sprocket, crank seal, timing cover seal and gasket, tensioner, and idler pulley. Did you refit the guide on the crank gear? The play you are talking of sounds normal, and no you can not buy the internal parts from Land Rover, but you local diesel service shop could help you but you won't be able to do the job yourself you need to be a specialist with a proper test bench. No again to the problems with these pumps, they are bulletproof....but as always you do get the odd one out there. I would have a look at the inside of the timing cover, the chafe mark on the inside will indicate which pulley has caused the belt to go off line. If you are not familiar with the set up you can mis align the idler and or the tensioner and cause the belt to destroy itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 ...only last week I saw a Tdi with the path of the cambelt cut into the cover as neat as you like , almost looked like a laser cut, right through in places . It was running apparently ok . This was due to the FIP having about 5mm of end float in the shaft. This is the 2nd in a year , so I wouldn't class the VE as bulletproof by any means . I'm not sure what the max end float is but you can be sure it's not much ... cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangy35 Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Like I said not impossible, in 22years on Land Rovers never seen a Tdi 2/300 pump fail in that way, seen one pump fail but it pumped more water than fuel, in my book bulletproof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basquen Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 We replaced all parts except for the crankshaft pulley. No signs of wear on the inside of the cover. I'm taking the pump to a diesel specialist this week to see what he thinks before we put it all back together. General feedback from other owners is that they are indeed bullet proof but Steve B's recent end float experiences sound like this could be the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 ...well I just think as you have had a problem it's worth a quick check up at a Diesel IP specialist my other experience with worn VE pump's is if it needs anything done internally get a full overhaul as just fixing the minimum may not be a saving in the long run ...it's just a gut feeling but you have to wonder about the difference in diesel today compared to when these FIP's were new back in the 90's cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_a Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I heard, and have tried, running a bit of 2 stroke oil in the diesel to keep the FIP more lubricated. No idea if it has an effect, a bit quieter, but may just be mental effect. Certainly no visible ill effects, no extra smoke etc. No one has mentioned if the crank sprocket you fitted had the lip on it, the 300 does/should have a lip, there was an initial issue of misalignment and the lip, plus complete change of the front cover due to a FIP mis fit causing bending, was a factory recall. At this stage, and with 75k on the previous, I'd say you don't need the cover & plate, but make sure you got the lipped crank, Bearmach are the preferred as it is cast and not spot welded on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 ...it's just a gut feeling but you have to wonder about the difference in diesel today compared to when these FIP's were new back in the 90's Probably about 80p I should think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 :hysterical: very true BM .......it was 25p a gallon when we went to the 100p £ .......... and went from 70p a gallon when I was 16 to £1.50 a gallon when I turned 17 and started driving hohum Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangy35 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Superb advice, if for any reason they have to open the pump to fix anything do a complete overhaul. I can not believe there is no evidence where the belt got chewed up, just shows not to old to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I have not noticed play on the pump spindles on my 200 or two 300 pumps, but I can't say for certain that it isn't there. I can tell you that the pumps aren't "bullet proof" - run them for a while on bad fuel, either contaminated diesel or unheated or dirty vegoil, and they soon break down. That's nether unexpected or unreasonable. My current 300 pump was attached to a 110Wolf engine which was cast from the MoD because it wouldn't run. The pump was a new replacement but the engine still wouldn't fire so they got rid of it. I got the pump for my engine, since the pump was in brand new condition (I didn't know its full history), and though it squirted fuel through the injectors, the engine didn't cough or splutter once, let alone run. It had to be reset for its internal timing because the front sprocket had been put on in the wrong position. Since getting it back, I have also found that the turbo pressure is not moving the boost section inside the pump - it's seized solid. Bosch must have had one of their dozy apprentices on the assembly line that day and another on the QC testing line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangy35 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Found the cause yet? Very interesting replies, just shows what you put in is what you get out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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