Oil Drinking and Smoke from a recon 200Tdi.

[crclifford]

Hi all,

Though i have search the site for answers about the smoke problem, i'm still not that happy with understanding what i need to do to solve the problem i have.

So, here's my problem..

I've just had a new recon engine put into the 90. The engine seems to be pulling well and is okay in general, but (and there is always a BUT!!)

After 900miles, i changed the oil, oil filter, Diff oil, G Box and T Box oil. What i didn't notice before but am now is that there is a big puff of black smoke on starting (belive this to be unburnt fuel) Since i have changed the oil over i have had to top up the oil (litre of oil every 500miles or so).

With respect to the smoke on starting this goes away at idle, until i rev hard then i get a puff of smoke again. Also i noticed on the motorway, during the jams, that on pulling away i get some more smoke puffing out from the exhaust.

So i checked the oil breather pipe from the cyclone to the air filter, and there is/was oil in the pipe, i replaced the hose with a short one into a bottle. i did a long run (100miles) but spotted no extra oil in the bottle.

So i asked the guy who installed the new engine for me, (based in wrexham..so a bit too far to travel to get him to look it over) for any ideas, he come back with the following..

"It sounds to me that the injector pump has been opened up which has caused the bores to be washed. the only cure is to have the injector pump serviced and recalibrated and the injectors serviced and when you have done that do an oil and filter change and use a running in oil and that will cure your problem"

Does this sound likely? if so how much is it to fix a FIP?

If it isn't this what else could it be (i'm thinking timing etc but have no idea or the skills to check this at all!! May solve the smoke on revving but not the oil drinking!!) and how can i narrow things down?

and fix the problem!!

On the oil front, i have checked under the car at rest, and there is no oil stain under the engine. Also there is no hole in the bell housing(??) for me to see if it is coming out there!

Many thanks in advanced.

Chris

[reb78]

The black smoke bit sounds normal. Not excessive and only really under acceleration.

The oil consumprion doesnt sound so normal - do they take a while for new rings etc to bed in? I'd have thought it should be bedded in after 3000 miles though.

[jbs]

Chris, give this bloke a call he'll do a 4 day turn round: http://www.dieselbob.co.uk/index.asp he'll do a 4 day turn round and gives a 12 month warranty too

HTH

John

[mickeyw]

If the bores/rings do not bed in correctly you will see excessive oil consumption. This can be a result of the bores not being honed correctly.

I remember when the 200tdi was new on the scene this problem was not unknown with factory built engines. I believe Turner Engineering at Newchapel did a lot of corrective work for Landrover. AFAIK they were just taking crank and pistons out and re-honing to achieve the correct surface finish, thus allowing successful bed-in.

[bishbosh]

Shot in the dark - is the dipstick tube correctly fitted.

If it is not, you may be getting a false reading resulting in you over filling with oil, which then gets burnt off = smoke and a low reading on the dipstick.

When you changed the oil did you refil with a precise volume (i.e. number of litres) or did you use the dipstick to check the level?

Might be worth dropping the oil and refilling with the correct volume from the manual and going fro there?

[western]

What i didn't notice before but am now is that there is a big puff of black smoke on starting

is normal on a 200 or 300Tdi at start up,

with the current cold weather any smoke will be more noticable.

check the dipstick fit as suggested above, the tech bulletin is in this forum, cos I posted it.

you will get a drop of oil in the air filter from the crankcase breather system, you will not get it oil free.

[crclifford]

Many thanks for all the suggestions, will get on it this weekend, and report back

Chris

[Diff]

Did you drive the engine too carefully after rebuild? Sounds like a case of glazed bores to me. This could be caused by incorrect honing of the bores, but can also be caused by/contributed to by:

1. being too gentle with the engine - Diesel engines need to be worked hard almost straight away after rebuild once warm. This doesn't mean revved really high with a light load, it means engine should work hard eg pulling strongly up big long hills and/or towing trailers up gradients. Diesel engines should be worked hard on and off over several hundred miles. Steady cruising at a light load for long periods is very bad during running in.

2. Too high spec oil for running in. Modern oils are almost too good for running in.

3. Temp too low. If the thermostat is stuck open, or opens too early, engine will run too cool and bores may glaze.

Hope this helps,

Regards, Diff.

[crclifford]

Well, one of the first things i did was pull a heavy trailer with miniJCB on it...only for about 30 mins. other than that i ive done motorway mileage..sitting at 60ish having accelerated steadily

When i changed the oil i did so for castrol magentec 10W40. (using the type (10w40) suggested by the owners manual)

Not sure what the oil was that the mechanic put in though.

He also fitted a Kenlowe fan to the radiator and i'm not sure if this switches on at all whilst driving, as i can't tell.

After about 100miles i fitted a Td5 dash so replaced the temp switch and now even on a long run the needle doesn't move far from 1/4 the way across the dial, this is when fan is on full and on full heat. it does run up to near the middle of the dial if they are turned off and i run it for a while on a long run.

So., if the bores are glazed what can i do? What do people suggest for a running in oil?

still not got home to check the FIP etc so this will be this weekends job.

Chris

[Roel J]

Well gents,

I seem to have the same problem after rebuilding the 200 Disco engine in my 90 (see story " AG XC " in members area).

Engine had 285.000 km, and a slight crack in the head.

In and on went a secondhand cyl head and short block was rebored and everything rebuilt with the tickest gasket.

Filled her up using not the dipstick, but the workshop-mentioned 7,5 liter of good quality oil, also 10W40 (think synthetic).

Done the running in smoothly (but not grannylike) and went on holiday after 3000 km bedding in and came back with 8000 more on the clock.

During my holidaytrip in Morroco I had filled her up with almost 2,5 liter, which means a consumption of 1liter/3000 km.

During that time I thougt it had something to do with the heat making the oil thinner and the fact that diesels do consume a little oil. (before the rebuilt, every 5000 km a small top-up)

After the trip: changed the oil and filter, filled with 7,5 liter, (reading not full!, only halfway+ on dipstick) and recently added 0,5 liter after less than 2000 km.

So what to do next: 1) Keep filling up?

2) Not keen on opening up again the engine to see that there is a problem with rings and bores......

Is there a problem lurking that I ruin the engine filling her up?

Thanks once again!

[western]

filled with 7,5 liter, (reading not full!, only halfway+ on dipstick)

have a look at your dipstick with reference to the tech bulletin link in my last reply to this thread http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=61741