Chicken Drumstick

+1 on the tub being too narrow. They just look really odd on a Disco. Have seen pics on the web. Hi-cap tub or something fitting the side profiling of the Disco would look a lot better IMO. Can only find this pic at the moment, but it's the rear 3/4 view or rear view that looks the most wrong, as the bed is way narrower (note how it steps in at the back of the door).

Nice decision to have Please get video and photos if possible. Although, seeing as the basic suspension setup and off road systems in the new Defender are very akin to the D3/RRS. I would expect it to perform very very similar. Do they have the optional rear locker at all?

I'd probably share it too, but I don't think something like that would actually stop me buying one. It would just be something to grumble about over a pint down the pub.

I hear where you are coming from. But ultimately most vehicles are world components these days. BMW's and Mercs are built in the USA and shipped all over the world. Yet to most people they are still "German" cars. Fords are built in Malaysia and people in the UK still think of them as British cars (of course ignoring the fact that they are American). Isn't it Bentley's that have all of their components built in other countries and then shipped to the UK for final assembly. Are they really 'Made in Britain'? From my own stable, I have an American muscle/pony car. But it was actually built in Canada and shipped direct to the EU. It has never set a tyre on US soil.

Assuming you mean light passenger class of vehicles and not a Uninog. Then the Wrangler is still a highly capable vehicle, either standard or modified. They lack the rated towing ability and are clearly aimed at being a recreational lifestyle vehicle, rather than a utility one. But none the less there is no denying what they can do. The Chevy Colorado ZR2 is a pretty impressive pickup truck. Front and rear lockers. Good suspension and very capable. Can be had with a 3.6 direct injection petrol or a 2.8 litre Duramax turbo diesel. A bit long overall and IFS for to ever be the ultimate off road. But good none the less.

Is the Daily4x4 still available in the U.K.? It wasn’t on their website last year and I emailed Iveco and never had a response. As for flex. Middling but not extreme. But it is designed to carry a lot of weight. There are some review vids on YouTube.

As a Land Rover fan. I think they are distinctive. But I’m a petrol head and have always been into cars and 4x4’s. I know plenty of people who really wouldn’t have a clue what was or wasn’t a Land Rover. Rationally I think there was never going to be a case. As it puts it in the linked document. It isn’t about being distinctive from other cars. But from other 4x4’s. And while in finer detail there are differences. The general shape as a 3D image is not hugely different to many other vehicles. Which I suspect is ultimately why so few (or any) cars have their shape trade marked. It is an impossible ask.

Surely it would be void warranty. Not Type Approval. At least not in the U.K. There are guidelines on what you can do to a vehicle before it would need an Individual Vehicle Approval. And changing the brakes as an aftermarket modification, on their own wouldn’t cause this.

US sales: 2019 7.348 2018 3.970 2017 4.188 2016 3.950 2015 3.616 2014 3.090 2013 2.494 Europe sales: 2019 8.682 2018 6.071 2017 5.457 2016 4.646 2015 2.936 2014 2.406 2013 2.632 https://carsalesbase.com/us-mercedes-benz-g-class/ https://carsalesbase.com/europe-mercedes-benz-g-class/

I think it would be unrealistic to think a new Defender (or any Defender) would have walked up there. It is super difficult to tell what an obstacle is really like on video, but you can clearly see, the boulder on the right of the screen is the size of a vehicle, the one on the left almost twice the size. i.e. it isn't exactly a tame or easy obstacle. You can also see the Bronco keeps all its wheels on the ground with relative ease. And that it could spin all 4 wheels at the same time (due to front/rear lockers). These two points demonstrate the suspension flex and drive train very well. The front approach angle and general ground clearance is also well demonstrated. Really the limiting factor was the physical grip on the rocks by the tyres. Which would have no relation to it being a Defender or not. Different tyre brands may work better, but again, this is nothing directly related to either vehicle or car maker. I would sat, the front IFS seems to flex very well on the Bronco, considering it isn't a live axle. Compare with the new Defender here, which is clearly on a far tamer obstacle, yet still makes somewhat of a hash of it: The Defender suspension just doesn't flex. When raised up, it seems to become very solid. And the vehicles has a weird bobbing up and down motion. You can see it also keeps lifting the front wheel, or letting it go very light with no weight on it. Also Defenders lack axle lockers in most cases, with only a rear locker being optional. Note how hard the TCS has to work, i.e. needing wheel slip/spin in order to make all the wheels turn. The use of the TCS also compounds the lack of suspension flex and makes the vehicle bob up and down even worse when power is applied, hence why it struggles for forward momentum and traction. I'm not saying the new Defender isn't capable. But it clearly has some short comings when viewed objectively. And oddly, I think the off road footage thus far of the new Defender, it seems to look less effective off road than a Discovery 3. Which just seemed to have so much better suspension movement. Lastly, in order to give the Defender the approach angle and ground clearance, you need to run it in the raised suspension mode. Having it in its normal ride height would likely cause all kinds of other grief with it getting beached or hitting the bumper. The Bronco is in its ordinary ride height off road as it doesn't need to lift itself higher.

There is a video of the interior footwell being hosed down, as well as the drain plug. However I think it should be noted, not even in a traditional Land rover would you have a high pressure hose being used inside the cabin. I suspect more a jug of water is likely to be used than a full on hose. As for your other points. Will it really need an additional battery for a winch? Probably not. And as for towing, sorry but in the US this is the wrong sector for that. They want you to buy a pickup truck to tow. Not a recreational 4x4. I know it kind of looks utilitarian, but it isn't. It is purely recreational and lifestyle. I believe the US market tow rating is 3500lbs (1578kg), the same as the Wrangler. However, physically I suspect it is more than capable of towing 3500kg, it just isn't officially rated for it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/court-says-land-rover-shape-can-t-be-trademarked-1.4322517 Court says Land Rover shape can’t be trademarked An interesting quote from Land Rover as well: “The Land Rover Defender is an iconic vehicle which is part of Land Rover’s past, present and future. Its unique shape is instantly recognisable and signifies the Land Rover brand around the world.” Are they just pining as they lost. Or is there a hint that they still had/have plans to do something a bit more "proper" Defender'ish?

Not sure why anyone wants to or is even trying to argue it. I was there, made an observation and simply relayed it in this thread. Also by the maths, they are not quite the same size, although the difference is minor. But nominally, they are not identical.

Could clearly see the difference fella I was there...... but I do know were you are coming from And you are assuming both tyres are strictly meeting the maths. Often tyres vary quite a bit. And I think it's worth noting, that the new Defender tyres on 19" rims have a chunkier sidewall than the standard tyres on a D2 or p38 Range Rover when running 18" rims. Which a lot of them had from the factory.

By the numbers the new Defender is rolling on tyres which are over 32", while a 235/85R16 is under 32". Was no optical illusion, I stood next between the two vehicles and the tyres were taller on the new one.

Under what conditions?

Agree. But the spacer was a cheap option. Nobody sells an 88 coiler rear prop off the shelf A 90 prop is too long, so I used an 88 one with spacer for now. Has done fine thus far, but is now a limitation. I'm hoping to get a custom one from Gwyn.

I hope the shocks do the trick for you. But sadly I think what you are experiencing is a live axle more than anything. The 90 also has a pretty short wheel base too. And of course quite a lot of ground clearance and ride height. I can't personally say I have an issue with live axles in this regard. But if you are finding the FL2 fine for the same use, then it does suggest something more fundamental in the design and behaviour of the 90. Not just tuning of the suspension. Maybe see if you can snag a ride in a V8 Discovery 1/RRC (late model). They have much better NVH than a Defender and ARB's. While they might not be sporting aftermarket shocks, they should give a pretty good idea of where you could get a Defender too. If they still don't suit, then there probably isn't much you can modify. The only last option would be to try a Discovery 2, but make sure it is one with working ACE (Active Cornering Enhancement). ACE is a hydraulic, reactive anti-roll bar. It senses when the vehicle begins to roll/lean and stiffens up the anti-roll bar. They do stay incredibly level.

Thank Daan. Yes they are the Tomcat ones. I'd like to know some specs on them too ideally.

Should be easy to T in the breather if you want. Or maybe be cheeky and vent to atmosphere with it.

I was surprised how big the tyres and sidewall are on the new Defender. In my pics above, when parked next to the green 90. You can clearly see the tyres are quite a bit taller than a 235/85R16. And despite being 19” rims, they have quite chunky sidewalls.

What sort of balance issues are you referring too? Most 90’s over the years didn’t have anti-roll bars. And with the right shocks/springs should handle well and not lean excessively. Do you know what suspension is on the vehicle now and what condition it is? If it’s an old mismash or worn out parts. It’s probably worth refreshing them before looking at ARB’s. Can always post some photos up here to help ID parts for you If you do go the ARB route, then factory fitted ones would be to the rear. You’ll need to check for the mounts on the axles though. As they normally aren’t present if it didn’t have an ARB from the factory. If you don’t have them you’ll need them welding on or sourcing an axle with them. Maybe from a Disco 1.

Ultimately I think any filter will work. Just make sure you have something. On a more technical level. I’m sure aftermarket filters can flow better than the stock air box. But I’m uncertain if the benefits would be realised on a diesel Land Rover engine in something heavy. Even more so if you aren’t tuning it for maximum power. So any potential performance gains will be negligible. On the flip side you don’t want to strangle the engine either. So try not to add anything more restrictive than a stock setup. In terms of performance. A K&N is a cotton weave filter. It flows more air, but at the sacrifice of some filtering ability. Although they are still pretty good. However they also need to be oiled in order to fully filter properly. And here is the snag. When clean they filter and flow well. However they become dirty far more quickly than a paper filter. And once dirty they also flow worse than a paper filter. So you need to clean a K&N more often than you’d swap out a paper filter. The cleaning products are also expensive. And after cleaning you need to re-oil it. And it is easy to over oil them. Not an issue on a diesel. But can cause MAF issues on petrol engines. For general UK use. I suspect the above doesn’t really matter all that much. Despite being an issue. However if I was planning on using the vehicle in a very dusty environment. I would be seriously considering what type of filter I would use. From research over the years. Foam filters tend to flow well, but filter less well than cotton weave. And they also need oiling and cleaning fairly often. The best filters are synthetic weave filters. A company called Donaldson in the USA uses this type of filter on heavy plant machinery. They offer high flow, high filtering and high durability. But are generally expensive and more difficult to buy. An oil bath is also a very good filtering system. But may reduce performance a bit if it doesn’t flow well enough.

Thanks for the insights and info. I think I'm reasonably set on which mounts I'd like to go for, as well as springs. I have found some that have an uncompressed length of 20.07", so a fair chunk longer than I what I'm running now. What I'm really undecided about are shocks. The Old Man Emu's are a tad pricey, but they are my preferred pick at the moment. Although I'd like to know more about the remote reservoir setups from Terrafirma, Britpart, Fox etc. If I'm spending the money, I'd like to do it right kind of thing. I'm also a little undecided about shock length. I can see that a longer (longer than the 11" offer by Gwyn) shock should offer more droop, esp on the rear axle. But if this is at the sacrifice of compression. I'm not convinced I want it. I'm also not convinced extreme suspension droop actually works better, as you get to a point where the wheel is no longer pushing/pulling vehicle along the ground. That said there seems to plenty of additional physical drop on the rear axle to make use of slightly longer shocks & springs over what I'm currently running. I think the prop is actually the limiting factor here and is a tad too short. However with the axle dropped this far, I do not like the prop angles at all. So it looks like a custom wide angle prop is in order first. But as these are a bit pricey, that might have to be for another pay packet. And thinking of safety, I think a wide angle prop for the front would be sensible too. Just to reiterate, I'm not unhappy with the suspension as it currently sits. It compresses well and is nicely balanced front/rear. These are traits I want to retain. I am looking at moving it to the next level however. This is how the suspension currently performs.

A friend picked up his new Defender yesterday. So we couldn't resist having a bit of a line up and photo shoot. We have vehicles spanning 1953 thru to 2020. I think the photos clearly show the new Defender had a lot more in common with the D4, than it does a traditional Defender or Series. However I think I can say, I do like the new vehicle, despite it being badged as Defender. Not because of it.