Chicken Drumstick

I rather like this vid. Amazingly it looks just like a D4 or RRS off road 🙃 who'd have thought that.... It does certainly look capable, just a D4 is. But that simply does not remove the fact that this is a Discovery, pure and simple. Some weird bouncing/bobbing up and down motion though.

The older BFG AT's, especially when old very dreadful on wet tarmac. I believe the newer KO2 is meant to be vastly better. However ultimately I think I'd prefer the Duratrac, even though I've not run them yet. BFG AT's also get out of their depth in a muddy field pretty quickly, at least when you compare them to a good MT. I do really like the look of the new KM3 MT's and suspect they would make a pretty good all round tyre. The KM2 was certainly very good. MTR's I'm not really a fan of. Very noisy on the road compared to some. And hopeless off road in British mud. They just weren't designed for UK terrain. However in markets outside the UK there is a new MTR pattern which looks far more aggressive. Not sure why we don't get it here though. The Yokohama Geolander MT might be labelled as an MT, but it performs much more like an AT and might be a closer matchup to the Duratrac if they are unavailable.

I think this is quite a pertinent picture. Unless someone told you, you'd never know by looking at them side by side that they are related. Or even from the same auto maker. Let alone meant to be a direct successor.

Thanks for the info. So the TD5 engine has a different bell housing bolt pattern then compared to a Tdi? Is it common to any other engines?

That is our thinking. Just wanted to make sure they would actually mate up ok. Expensive experiment otherwise. Happy to fab up mounts for the engine in whatever position it ends up really. Just trying to avoid laying for another gearbox too.

It’s an option. But I think it may be needing a new crank. So might not be the most economical option. Also this is an opportunity to try and make the vehicle more refined. The Tdi’s are fine old lumps. But they are all bloody noisy and unrefined. Even compared to a 2.5TD.

Just one I'm pondering. Is there anything to prevent a Td5 engine mating to an LT-77? Such as in a 2.5TD 90? We have a 1989 Ninety which is currently converted to 200Tdi power, but the engine is showing signs it is nearing the end. And the price of a replacement 200Tdi or the extra cost in converting to a 300 has us wondering if a Td5 could be suitable. As these engines cost about the same to attain, but have the benefit of much more refinement and potential power. There is nothing wrong with the LT-77 or transfer box in the Ninety however. And replacing the drivetrain and/or seat boxes/tunnel gets somewhat pricey. I've seen conversions with people swapping to R380's and going the full hog. But not any with just swapping in the engine. I understand piping for exhaust/rad/PAS/oil cooler, etc and wiring would all need to be considered. But they are for a 200/300 swap.

A stock Defender is highly capable off road. I'm not saying you shouldn't lift it, but you don't need to in order to improve off road ability. Likewise 'extreme' suspension is usually best used for extreme activities. Normal road use will not be its forte. I have run 33.11.50R15 Simex tyres on stock suspension 90's before. They do fit, but might rub the wheel arch flares under flex or high speed cornering. These measured about 34" tall against the tape measure. However depending on the rims you use, they might stick out of the arches, which in the UK would be illegal. A lift will give you more clearance when the vehicle is standing, but if it is still flexy, then when the wheel moves up all the lift is gone and they may still rub when off road. A 285/75R16 might be an option, slightly smaller, but still look big and chunky on a stock suspension Defender. Again watch for them sticking out of the arches however. As for the Terrafirma kit you cite. It looks fine, although isn't what I'd personally run.

Not even close. Stock front shocks are only about 8” long. Why do you want narrow shocks?

You don’t need to lift for that size. And what do you mean by “professional” off roaring???

The chassis is clearly Series in origin. Which really then hails from the Willis GP1 if you want to be really picky. The RR was an evolution of this chassis. Not the other way round. You also seem to be totally ignoring the Stage 1. Which as its name suggest was the first stage to the 90/110 models. And certainly set the theme for the styling. The coil suspension may have been introduced on the RR. But a 90 was never just a chopped down Range Rover with a different body.

Which sadly will likely be horrendous in price and appearance. just like every aftermarket bumper is for the D3/4.

The old Defender isn’t a Range Rover though. Wtf are you on?

What width tyre are you going for? Do you have a budget for tyres? The new Km3 MT from BFG looks nice. But not the cheapest. Will you be regearing at all or are you modified already? Also do you have uprated drivetrain? And what sort of engine. A 35 is pretty chunky. But doable.

Where did you get the GPS speedo from? Is it quick to attain a signal?

This is one of the first things I said when I saw it. I'm amazed that JLR didn't want to make it look more like a "Defender", regardless of where it is pitched as a model. It really shares no design language with the "Land Rover --- 1948 thru 2016" at all. Which is just super odd IMO. Look at a Wrangler/Jimny/G-Wagen and regardless of their design, visually they all hark back to their past variants, style and design language.

Lockers maybe, although TCS has been standard on 90's since 1998! The suspension didn't look all the great IMO, a bit wobbly. It probably had more travel, but I'm not sure it was really an improvement over stock, just different.

Weird??? have to say I completely fail to see the point of this. Also if it isn’t sitting level. Surely the spring rate and/or length is not correct for your intended use.

They will fit, but are not normally within manufacture recommended specs. 15psi seems low for green lane use. 95% of the time road pressures should be fine.

Off roading is quite often about the line and how you use the throttle, steering and importantly momentum. So it is largely down to the driver, which I know Naks was saying about earlier. The type of terrain will also impact what and how the driver needs to react. And you'll find you may get very good drivers on one type of terrain, who may then struggle on another type. Because they require quite a different driving style and technique. In terms of the vehicles and traction aids. It is actually amazing where you can get a standard Land Rover to go. By standard I mean something live axle and traditional ladder chassis, from a 1940's Series 1 80" thru to the last of the line Defenders. All of these vehicles have open axle differentials. So it is almost impossible to get them to spin all 4 wheels. And when they do, it is unlikely all 4 will be rotating at the same speed. In most cases you will spin 2 wheels, one on each axle. If this happens as a driver you can do several things. Backing up and trying again with momentum is often a good solution. It is important to note that momentum and speed are not exactly the same thing off road. But one people often confuse. Also flooring the throttle is not usually the answer and is something more common these days, way too much throttle far too late! You'll often find people driving low powered classic 4x4's such as an original Willys or a Series Land Rover often drive better and smoother (not always). This sometimes happens because they have learnt they need to preserve momentum more so in those vehicles, because they don't have the power and torque to simply blat their way through an obstacle. But this means they may generally have less trouble in the first place. Other things you can do is wiggle the steering wheel or try a different line. With open diffs it is important to consider weight transfer. You want the weight of the vehicle on the wheels with the most contact to the ground (although wheels waving in the air is not usually a good thing, and overall stability is always important). This will prevent wheel spin and loss of traction. Left foot braking can also be used to counter spinning wheels too, whether they are in the air or just light on traction. If the vehicle is equipped with an off road biased traction control, then it is important to understand how it works. Which is by braking the spinning wheels to generate load across the axle to allow the opposite wheel to rotate. This can require significant effort in some cases. Older TCS systems also often require more wheel slip than newer ones, but all work on the same principle. In order to make the TCS work, you need to keep the throttle open, lots of people lift off as soon as the TCS engages. Which completely defeats the point in having it. I think sometimes people are scarred of the noise and pedal pulses it can induce. And some people who tend to be slow off road drivers don't like the fact the wheels are spinning, but this is often part of what is needed to make the system work. Especially on slippery surfaces. On the flip side of this, you don't need to floor it either, a constant throttle input or gently rolling into the throttle usually works best. Basically you want enough throttle to make the system work and no more. As with most things 'driving', a smoother driver will have a better time off road and drive over things more easily. Sometimes it is less dramatic, but smooth driving is normally more effective. You can still be fast and aggressive at times. But reckless would not be part of this vocabulary. As for spinning wheels. There are situations when you need to do this, although other times require you not too. Times when it might help are to clear the tyres, cut down through a top layer or indeed to make a traction system work. And sometimes wheel speed is desirable. Being in the UK, I am personally less versed in 'rock crawling'. As we just don't have terrain like in the video being discussed. However, in my view spinning the wheels on such terrain may have benefits in either clearing sand/dust from the rock or in generating heat in the tyre and giving it more traction. But I would need to be there and try it to see if this was the case or not. I seriously doubt excessive wheel spin would be a good idea. This is because wheel spin on rock can sometimes induce bouncing or sliding, which will simply allow gravity to pull the vehicle in a direction, which on a steep incline is likely to pull you side ways and run the risk of tipping/rolling/hitting a boulder or similar.

Most tyre makers will say 10j rim for a 12.50, although in the USA it is fairly common practice to fit them to an 8" wide rim.

The Toyo while it looks semi aggressive will perform more akin to an AT in the mud. Not a bad tyre, but I'd say a distinct rung down from the Trep or BFG KM in terms of off road performance.

It's easy to blame the driver, but they had the TCS working on it. You could clearly see it was more a down to the suspension, it wanted to lift wheels more easily or have less weight on them than the live axle vehicles. You see this very clearly at the beginning of the vid with the old proper 110. Combined with the fact the TCS requires some wheel slip to engage means you had to spin the wheels and loose traction before you make all the wheels turn. I don't think the Pretender did any worse than a D3/4/5, L405, etc. It uses essentially the same setup and tech!!! but it clearly demonstrates that the Pretender is built and designed primarily as an "on" road vehicle. Massively enhanced with electronics to give it some off road worthiness. A proper Defender has a native design that is highly capable without any electronic aids.

What vid did they ground out at speed?

lol, clearly you are a driving God then..... 😂