Chicken Drumstick

ok, yes I missed that, it does say modified chassis. However it still doesn't explain much else though. Do you have any more detailed info on the requirements for this, or know of where any additional info can be found? It's things more like engine, transmission and suspension that I'd really like clarification on. Would swapping stock shocks for Pro Comp +2" and some HD springs be counted as a radical change and subject to 2 points loss when evaluated kinda thing? Not just in relation to LR's either. But other cars, maybe like a classic Triumph GT6. You could easily change lots of parts, although still remain for most peoples intent stock yet have an easy score or less than 8 depending on how you look at it.

So when does it become radical though?? It doesn't seem to state on that webpage what change causes it to be in need of checking. Depending on how you read it, taking a Range Rover and chopping it down and putting an 88" body on should not cause an issue so long as you keep the RR ID and reg on it. The engine would not have changed = 1 point The suspension would not have changed = 2 points The axles would not have changed = 2 points The steering would not have changed = 2 points The transmission would not have changed = 2 points And technically the chassis is still original and not a monocoque so the bodywork forms no part of it. In affect it would be like fitting a form of bodykit = 5 points Worst case the vehicle would score 9 points or the maximum 14 points. I really would quite like to see some details on how something is radical or not. Is swapping a 2.25 petrol for a 2.25 diesel engine in a SIII radical - well in some ways yes, its a different fuel type. But at the end of the day they are the same block and the same displacement. How about fitting a 2.5d instead of a 2.25? Radical? Would you still lose a point for doing this or would it be considered a suitable replacement part? If anyone can shed any further light on this then I'd be very interested. Thanks.

Further to this: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Buyin...cle/DG_10014199 All the talk about cars not keeping their ID and points scoring. With the DVLA watching us an all. Does anyone have any info on how these points are validated or even the criteria required to mean that it should even be assed in the first place? In the link above it says this: But it doesn’t say what qualifies or why? I ask this because then entire section is headed as: Let me explain. If you took a Discovery 3.5 V8i manual (LT77) and you swapped in a Land Rover 3.9 V8i, R380 gearbox, put some HD suspension on it (basically new shocks and springs), relocated the steering damper and put up-rated half shafts and CV joints in the axles. Would this now need to be SVA’d??? According to the list, only the chassis would have remained and it would have scored 5 points. So an SVA and a Q-plate?? Or are these changes not radical enough? So what is radical? Anyone have any clarity on what is or isn’t allowed? It all seems very confusing to me, with a total lack or clarification and distinction.

Exhaust tuning relies on two things: -gas flow -exhaust pressure wave Flow is the easiest to deal with. With diesel you basically want as much flow as possible, there's no need to balance it with back pressure to preserve the tune as you would with a petrol engine. There are plenty of decent mufflers that flow more than enough not to affect the HP but should still reduce db levels. You may need to look at buying multiple mufflers though. On a 2.25 you don't really need to worry that much, it doesn't produce much HP. I'd just slap some long sensible sized bullet mufflers in there. One about half way along and one at the back. I'd also run the exhaust all the way to the back of the vehicle as it should drone less and is further away from the drivers seat. Have a look at Magnaflow mufflers, they are good quality and affordable. Check prices out on Ebay. I'd say you'd want to run 2" tubing or maybe 2.5" if you want it to look beefier. The bigger the muffler the more silencing affect it should have. I wouldn't worry about tuning for the exhaust pressure wave - I have no idea how to do it anyhow..

As a different approach have a look at STS turbo systems in the US. They aren't for Landy's but the rear/remote mount approach may not be such a bad solution. And while I accept a turbo setup is complicated and probably above me, I can't see why a mild 5-7psi setup with suitable fuel and ignition control couldn't be used. Loads of guys the world over have done similar things. I'd have thought a 4.0 litre V8 with 5psi of boost would easily wipe the floor with a n/a 4.6 RV8.

You need to establish if its running right or not first. If it is then you want performance mods, if its not then you need to find the issue. Cams and/or lifters wear on these motors, so if everything else checks out ok, this might be worth looking at. The stock motor is all low end revs and grunt, and literally strangles itself at higher rpms. Combine this with fairly tall diff gearing, tall transfer high ratio gearing and only a 4 speed gearbox (if auto) then yes it can blunt performance. If you want more umph the basic tuning rules apply, get as much air in as pos, as big a bang without breaking anything and get the hot gases out as quick as pos. A decent free flow induction setup will help. As will a nice free flow exhaust, but these won't produce huge gains. For more power you really need long tube exhaust manifolds, the longer the primaries the better - sadly these are almost impossible to get in the UK and usually expensive. I don't know how tunable the stock ECU is, if its limited then switching to Megasquirt or even a 4 barrel carb setup is worthwhile. Swap in a sensible cam and maybe some decent heads and bing - it'll feel like you gained a 100hp (although probably not quite that amount). But there's no reason you couldn't see 200bhp+ out of it and still remain very nice on the road (on or off). Either that or try and pick up a 4.6 and swap it in, easy way to gain 40+ bhp.

Thanks for the informative reply. Can I ask, was you setup similar to the one Allisport sell? I'm not looking at it for daily use, just as a performance mod when required. I've heard of people saying the LPG tank should be 25% of the diesel tank, no idea if that's accurate or not, but providing it would not run out in 5 mins I'm ok with that. I'd expect cost per mile to increase when in use, it would be burning 2 fuels afterall. I did rather disagree with Allisports ad about claiming better mpg as it is deliberately misleading. I may be way off base, but my hopes or expectations would be to retain my current performance (tuned pump & turbo and full width intercooler) with moderate smoke @ WOT when propane not in use. At the flick of a switch gain ~ 25% HP increase (35-40hp). I wouldn't run it all the time, just when out for a spirited drive, pulling out on fast moving roads or joining dual carriage ways. Use it as a fun addition rather than part of the daily driver usage. A smallish tank (I'd guess 3-5 gallons) shouldn't be so hard to locate on the vehicle and the duel filling part doesn't bother me. If the tanks empty it can stay empty until I either have the time/money/inclination to refill it. Do you think I'm being a hopelessly optimistic???? BTW - what engine did you have yours on and what sort of HP boost did it give.

Thanks. Have to say the more I read about it the more I want it. Just need to figure out where to put the propane tank in the Disco though, don't really want it in the back if I can avoid it, wonder if theres enough room underneath to keep them out of harms way off road??

I've seen it listed as a catalyst before, infact lots of automotive things get called that, I found this website which was quite interesting though: http://www.mrsharkey.com/lpg.htm It says this: Although I admit I have little idea if its accurate or not... Still wouldn't mind hearing some 1st hand experience with propane on a Landy Tdi though, I've heard of some on VW Tdi's but they didn't seem to report much success, although this might just have been their setup. But if it offers anything like the performance claimed in Allisports ad then it should be rather impressive.

So you've tried it? I understand how some can say like nitrous, but it's quite a differenet process as far as I understand. Isn't NOS an oxidiser while propane in diesel is an accelerant?? Guess I'll have to wait until next week and see if Andy gets back to me. Always has in the past (they tuned my 200Tdi and fitted the intercooler).

I'm interested in the Allisport propane kit for my 200Tdi. I understand how it works and also know its not new. I've tried emailing Allisport but to no avail. Does anyone having any experience with it? What sort of real world power gains should be expected and how reliable has it been? I've seen what looks to be the same kit from a US supplier: http://www.dieselperformanceproducts.com/ Anyone know if it is the same? Ta.

I'm not sure TBH, I think it sounds like a lot of work, especially when you can buy a new coil sprung 88" chassis or just chop down a RR/Disco chassis. I'd have though welding the spring perches onto the axles and running with parabolic suspension would be a good bet if you just want the axles.

White spoke could mean the turbo's on the way out IMO. Maybe burning the bearings up. Oil smoke normally has more of a blue tinge to it.

I also agree, why spend money when its not needed. If you are going to tear into it I personally wouldn't bother with stock parts. Go for a performance cam and maybe some decent heads, it'll really wake the motor up and allow it to run how its supposed to.

Factory V8 90/110 models use the LT85 box, its a tad stronger but not as nice. A good LT77S or R380 for most people will be as good. RR and Disco V8 only ever used the LT77 or R380 (except early RR that had Lt95 4 speeder). Gearing is similar and diff gears are all the same.

I know what you mean, but yes in a way you are. The V8 has been in Landy's since 1970 in the Range Rover, 79 in the Stage 1 and all thru the 80's in the 90/110. Not too mention others such as the 101. Also in some markets (USA) the V8 has been the only engine available in RR's. Disco's and Defenders.

Afraid I don't know much about these engines. Are they really worth the hassle when compared to a TD5? What sort of hp/torque do they produce and who makes conversion kits for them? Thanks

It might be or it might not. Some people have lots of trouble and some don't have any. Diesels never really seem to have a problem though. However if you're not going to wade in deep water, don't let this be the decider for you. There are lots of V8's about, but they always seem more expensive to me. You can buy a Tdi off Ebay for £350, most V8's seem to be around £500. You could buy an entire vehicle with either engine in for £300-500 pounds though (MOT failed RR or Disco). Yes. A 2.5d has 67bhp and 100lb ft, a 200Tdi has 107/111bhp and ~195lb ft (Disco has slightly more power). However with a tweak of the injector pump you can get it drive a lot lot better. If you add a big intercooler to it its a whole different ball game. Up to around 70mph my modded 200Tdi Disco manual would give an auto 3.9 RR a could run for its money. BTW - I've driven a few V8 Landy's, they are good and fun but a Tdi offers 90% of the ability with nearly double the economy. The TD5 just makes the V8 look out dated (which it is) and will easily out perform a V8 or match it, even a 4.6 PS - I actually love the RV8, I have 3.5 making around 220-230bhp in a sports car. But I see the benefit of diesel engines in a Landy. Now if the Jaguar AJ8 DOHC engine was eaiser to get working without the rest of the car it came out of, then it would be a great option, sadly I don't think it's really that viable yet.

Depends on what you want from it. A V8 is a nice way to go and will sound great but it does have it's downsides. Mostly running costs, if you go carb expect 12-15mpg no matter what you do, EFI (Megasquirt) should see better mpg, but if you are averaging more than 18mpg then there would have been no point fitting a V8 as you evidently wouldn't be using in the proper fashion, if you know what I mean Personally I'd say go for a diesel. A 200/300Tdi is pretty cheap now and with a few tweaks will run more power and torque than a 3.5 V8 and not be far behind a 3.9/4.0 RV8 (and arguably drive better). You'll also see 25-35mpg and will be better in the water. I also quite like the sound the diesels make too. I've got a tweaked 200Tdi in my Disco, it should be making around 150bhp/260 lb ft compared to 134bhp/187lb ft for a low CR 3.5 V8. If you have the money and ability your best bet would be a TD5 though. Fantastic engine and should be an easy swap into a 110. Ok they only have 122bhp/137bhp (Def/Disco) stock, but a few tweaks and your talking 200bhp+ TD5!!! Only other oddball option would be a modern V8 like a Chevy LS, minimal of 350bhp. But this will be a lot more work and require tranny and drivetrain upgrades.

I used to have trac-edges on my 90. Great DD tyre and will go anywhere anytime. Ok in the wet they are not as good as some road biased tyres on tarmac, but they are a very good everyday tyre. Personally preferred them to BFG A/T's. Don't know how the remould will fair, but it should be ok. If I was looking for an AT I'd probably go for it.

Do you plan to retain leaf springs or convert to coil?

That's true, mines a 3 door so don't have the problem. Afraid bodylifts are a little out of my knowledge base though, hopefully someone else will chime in.

I have indeed! :D :D :D And I just love em. Although I think the GM Duramax V8 is king at the moment. 6.6 litres DOHC common rail, variable nozzle turbo and all the trimmings. There are plenty making around 800bhp and 1200lb ft or torque. Sadly don't think a LR drivetrain or chassis would cope with that though.....

Smoke is good the more smoke the more power in diesel tuning. Mines not too modded, just a Allisport full width intercooler and tuned injector pump and upped boost (it's a 200Tdi so now matches 300Tdi on boost). And a slightly freer flowing exhaust. I do run some big Simex mud tyres (33.11.50) and with stock gearing this does dampen the acceleration a bit. While touring in Wales the other year I easily out powered a stock TD5 Disco II in the hills and on the straights, so I know it must be running ok. Having said that a stock D3 2.7 TDV6 will romp all over me as though I'm going backwards.... I've been looking into the Allisport propane kit, just waiting for them to get back to me with some more details. But I think it might be a good way to go. If you don't mind slightly higher cruising rpms it might be worth looking at swapping the LT230 transfer box for one out of a Defender, those ones are more aggressively geared for high range, either that or change the diff gears, but that gets pricey.

Personally I think it's more about trimming than just lifting. Well trimmed arches and a 2" lift would probably do it IMO, but I am only guessing. Not really keen on body lifts myself. You'll also need to hack the front bumper down if it wraps round the sides and the sills will also get in the way.