jeremy996

I have got back from my trip down to near Lewes from Melton Mowbray for the Grenadier 2B Prototype Tour Experience - 402 miles door to door in my LR 110CSW 200Tdi. Spent just over 2.5 hours there with a half hour passenger ride in one of the drivetrain prototypes. It's a proper prototype with a mix of one-off plastic bits, gaffer tape, one-off metal parts, lots of dymo-tape labels and part of the initial talk was ignore the interior, that will change, concentrate on the drivetrain, ride, handling, controllability, noise and vibration levels. So, impressions; it's an X5 drivetrain reworked as a proper off roader - air intake up high, optional electric lockers and optimised for low down torque, Ian, (Ian White MBE), the test driver thought the engine didn't need to do much more than 2500rpm. Very controllable and well matched to the auto box. Nothing too dramatic was done across a mix of parkland, woods, sheep fields and some rolling slopes, but I got the impression that my 200Tdi would have been rather rougher riding, a bit breathless in places and I would have had issues with my steering lock! It was very civilised; the seats are really excellent, (reminded me of the Recaros in my old Vauxhall Nova GTE), the noise levels low, (even with the windows open), and low levels of vibration, (remember my base line is a 200Tdi!) Plenty of shoulder room, the cabin seems huge compared to my 110. It is far to early to judge fit and finish, but the outer panels seem well put together and the prototype interior seems well judged. (So many bits are 3D printed, other than shape and location, I'm not sure what else you can take away from this). Apparently there are announcements about sales, service and warranty shortly; they are not going for a conventional dealer network; we will have to wait and see for final details. I took a lot of pictures, some of which are below, (some were just "meh"). They were not keen for people to take pictures of the underside as there are changes already planned, the basic drivetrain is set, but the under-bonnet layout is still being revised, and they would not open any of the bonnets, (probably debating how many covers to put in the way; the answer is DON'T!). The wiring sounds like a bit of a hybrid; the drivetrain prototype has issues with the window switches being miss-mapped, with the wrong window moving when a switch is operated, so I would guess that the interior and basic systems are CANBUS, (with minor programming issues), but the accessory switches are intended to be wired to under-bonnet fuse boxes and terminations; sticking a winch on should be a doddle. The bumpers are in 5 bits, with bits being replaceable separately, with space for a concealed winch. No one could tell me about the provision for a tow hitch and electrics; this was apparently the most expected optional extra, (I'll need it). I think Ineos are being very brave letting the public see a vehicle this early, ("never show fools and children things half done!"), some of the Facebook groups are full of the impatient wanting a price and availability NOW, but they are still a year from commercial release, but come October I expect to be putting down a returnable deposit.

Just got to the end of my 2B Prototype Tour experience. Write up to follow when I’ve got home - 190 miles to go!

As the extra frame appears to be holding the rear lights and the filler neck, I'd guess it is only temporary?

My last one was LUK, bought from a factor. Two look like Britpart, could be great, could be terrible. The Valeo one should fine, but there is always the possibility of fake parts. I really like being able to walk into the parts counter and stand nose to nose with the vendor. It costs so much, (in time and effort if not in money), to change a clutch that the cost of the bits is not the biggest factor!

Pictures posted to a Grenadier forum on Facebook; part done pick-ups on what looks like a longer wheelbase! (Autocar said there'd be a a 115" and a 125").

It's been said before - but doesn't quite capture the full horror of the situation. Bought March 2005 with 147,000 on the clock. It had been tarted up about 4 years previously before being bought by the vendor. 2006, 200Tdi added June 2008 big rebuild commences, LR at 190,000 miles July 2011 rebuild finished, still at 190,000 August 2011, back axle changed again June 2014, passed 250,000 August 2021 passed 360,000

My '89 110 CSW would have fallen foul of the DVLA identity rules, except that the changes took place over many years! Chassis replaced Engine replaced in 2006 and heavy rebuild in 2019 rear axle replaced (twice) Gearbox replaced (twice) Roof replaced All brakes changed at least twice, except the transmission brake which is now an X-brake and has had nothing done to it in 10 years. All doors replaced, the safari door three times. The other 4 need changing again All lights replaced Loom replaced The bulkhead was repaired, it will be replaced next! The bits I know to be original are the instrument binnacle, although the shroud has been changed, the transfer box and the front axle. Everything else? Probably! And not just by me; there were owners before me.

Slightly unsubtle bit of lateral thinking! How the assessment process can distort the manufacturing reality.

Thanks everyone, Confirmation I am not going mad; a better fuse and good contacts.

My heater fan stopped working, so after cursing it for a few days, I finally went to investigate. My '89 110CSW was originally a 19J and now has a 200Tdi; it has an early Defender Autosparks loom with blade fuses. It had melted and glued itself to the fuse-holder. I have cleaned up the manky spade terminals pressed into the plastic holder and replaced the fuse, making sure it is making a good contact with the spades. Any suggestions for a better solution? (Without rebuilding the truck, it's 10 years from the last one),

Andrew English in the Telegraph, sounding very like Happyoldgit! https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/features/ineos-grenadier-new-4x4-rough-tough-go-anywhere-truck-full-contradictions/ Ineos Grenadier: the new 4x4 is a rough, tough, go-anywhere truck that's full of contradictions We assess the progress and off-road prowess of the eagerly awaited off-roader ahead of its launch in 2022 By Andrew English 6 August 2021 • 6:00am (Picture removed but caption preserved) Prices will be confirmed soon but the Grenadier is expected to start at £45,000 - although that's for a two-seater commercial version, not this five-seat passenger version CREDIT: Chris Brown We don’t normally do this stuff, sitting in a passenger seat while a chisel-faced test driver pulls some tricks to make a vehicle look better than it really is. But the Ineos Grenadier is a vehicle full of contradictions. For a start, it’s a now old-fashioned body-on-frame utility aimed at a market which other makers are rapidly deserting. At a mooted £45,000 including VAT for the two-seat commercial version when it goes on sale next summer, this is a resolutely analogue vehicle with buttons enough for several Christmas pantos, but it also sports a thoroughly modern touchscreen because without it the engine won’t run. It’s a rough, tough, go-anywhere truck, powered by BMW’s state-of-the-art, powerful and refined turbocharged diesel and petrol engines, along with ZF’s slick eight-speed automatic gearbox. It’s also a car with an apologetic little bicycle warning hooter button on the steering wheel, produced by a company which owns an eponymous top-flight cycle racing team which on some terrains probably rides faster than a Grenadier can muster. It must have been an enormous leap of faith for those highly experienced engineers and designers who have joined Ineos in the last three years. There was certainly plenty of money behind it (Jim Ratcliffe, a Monaco-domiciled chemicals magnate, is one of the world’s richest men), but failure would have meant career suicide for these women and men. Yet while few have actually met him, there must have been something in Ratcliffe’s vision and determination which inspired them to take the risk. And where James Dyson, the wealthy vacuum cleaner man, took on an equally talented team of engineers and designers to build his battery-electric fantasy car then left them all high and dry, I’ve little doubt that Ratcliffe will get his Grenadier, named after a Belgravia pub, across the finishing line in 12 months. Evidence of progress came this week at the first of a series of UK open days for early customers and media, which presages a world tour. While the company has allowed some journalists to actually drive engineering prototypes of this coil-sprung, solid-axled utility at development partner and 4x4 specialist Magna Steyr’s headquarters in Austria, this is a much-reduced acquaintance with Ineos test and development driver Mark Cullum at the wheel. Reduced further still at the last moment by the withdrawal of the prototype car we were due to be in for a less capable engineering example; still, you take what you can get. After this long build-up (though relatively short development cycle), it was a relief to be sitting at last in the passenger seat as Cullum drove across the wide parkland of the beautiful Apley estate near Telford in Shropshire. There wasn’t much here to tax even a front-driven supermini crossover on decent tyres let alone a permanent four-wheel drive, high-riding utility with no fewer than three locking differentials. In fact, we never even dipped into the low range gearing or locked a differential for improved traction, such is the unflustered nature of the vehicle. You’ll have to excuse me if I don’t do a passenger seat road test here, attributing qualities that I can only guess at, but I can confirm an abiding quality of strength and solidity, good body geometry to enter and exit steep slopes, decent sealing of apertures in the bodyshell and low-down growly power from the 3.0-litre turbo diesel (the last figures we had for this engine were 250bhp and 369lb ft of torque, with the turbo petrol equivalent delivering 283bhp and 332lb ft, although that could change in production). Accommodation in this engineering car seems comfortable, high off the ground, with (unlike the old Land Rover Defender), plenty of width for your shoulders. The vaunted many-button dashboard wasn’t in operation, nor were any of the switches, so we’ll reserve judgement. They’re spinning out the actual terms and exact prices which will be charged for the Grenadier, but we are expecting some kind of announcement within six weeks. Steve Graham, head of aftersales for the company, says his top-five extras will be: tow bars; extra lamps; a winch; a roof rack; and side steps. Like all the sales and marketing staff, he’s anxious that the Grenadier earns its place in people’s hearts and on the buying list of fleet buyers. That quiet modesty runs right through the company, but Graham is pleased with the reception he’s had so far. “We’re now getting enquiries from people outside of those in the know, who’ve said that they also want to be in the know,” he says, “but the issue is legacy and fleet sales will come when the professional buyers see track record and figures for total cost of ownership.” While Grenadier testing is taking place around the world, all the serious 4x4 companies have their special places where they earn their red badges of courage and make a legend for their cars: Land Rover has its daunting proving ground at Eastnor Castle and its incredibly tight off-road course at the factory in Solihull; Mercedes-Benz has the 1,445m high Schöckl mountain behind the Magna Steyr factory in Graz, which builds the mighty G-Wagen off roader; Toyota has the old pilgrim route up Mount Fuji, or the samurai trail to the temple on top of Mount Atago; and there’s the tough rocks of the Rubicon Trail in America for Jeep, which begats the “Trail Rating” for its vehicles. All the above companies have had their ups and downs over the years and good and bad models, but a Jeep, Land Rover, Land Cruiser or G-Wagen badge on the back of a vehicle is the promise of a level of capability and toughness to which Ineos is striving. And while flogging a new thing to the bright young things of Rodeo Drive, the Dubai Mall, Bayswater, the Rue de Rivoli or the Harajuku in Tokyo is all very well, if the Grenadier is going to have staying power (as well as garnering the confidence of utility compnies, fleets and eventually armed forces for green-fleet work), it’s going to have to gain its own identity rather than looking like a very capable thing painstakingly designed by agencies with chassis and drivetrains from Germany, axles from Italy and transmission from America, built at a fire-sale ex-Mercedes factory in France. So, excuse us if we say no more than promising (although it looks great with some mud on it!), but the proof of the pudding is when it’s in a field pulling a trailer full of sheep for a farmer, or a generator for a linesman, or a couple of search and rescue dogs for the police… I think you know what I mean

I fitted mine when I discovered the handbrake drum was well out of round, the shoes shot and the cable frayed. The X-Brake was cheaper than fixing the standard setup! I'm too deaf to worry about pads rattling.

Just to amplify Happyoldgit's comment, I never did receive a response to the e-mail I sent to Ineos, Jim Radcliffe and their press officer. They seem to have a policy of formal engagement with accredited journalists and a general acceptance of social media sources with co-operation only as private individuals, (see the PowerfulUK YouTube video on the previous page). I have got access to all of the press resources and have commented on them where I see fit. I don't get sent them specially. I'm on the 2B tour, together with 100s of others! Just to illustrate what kind of anorak I am, I also stalk the wider web, Facebook, main stream media, the motoring press and YouTube looking for Grenadier content, some of which I post here. (Much of it is just too dull and derivative to give it exposure). If I have missed something novel, interesting or controversial, please add it here or tell me about it.

Watched the PowerfulUK video and agree with Deep, I loath electric handbrakes - just too much to go wrong and will, once the vehicle has some age behind it. Most vehicles are built these days for the first owner and to get to the end of the warranty with the minimum of expense. Building a vehicle to last is not in the modern idiom; they are supposed to self-destruct, so you have to buy another one! If Ineos can build and sell a robust and long-lasting vehicle, I will be delighted. The PowerfulUK narrator mentioned the green credentials of a longer lasting vehicle, (lifted from my website, written 13 years ago, http://www.jeremymedwards.co.uk/Site/Land_Rover_Blog/Entries/2008/7/22_Durable_Car_Ownership.html) "...academic papers presented to a conference, (www.score-network.org) in November 2006. The SCORE conference, (Sustainable Consumption Research Exchange), included one paper on “Cars and Sustainable Consumption” by Paul Nieuwenhuis of Cardiff University. Here, the cost of actually running the vehicle is almost ignored, the emphasis is on the impact of planned obsolescence and the need for there to be an emotional “connection”, to break the normal cycle of consumption and disposal. The author previously identified that the production and disposal elements of a car’s life used up between 20-30% of the total energy used up in it’s total lifetime, (1994), so each car made more durable immediately saves between a fifth and a third of the total energy generally consumed in a “normal’ car’s life." It may be hard to believe that Henry Ford I was an advocate for a durable vehicle, (the Model T), but soon discovered the forbidden fruit of planned obsolescence and regular model changes.

If you register you can see a few articles a month for free; I pay for access

New article in the Telegraph that members of the forum might find interesting, https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2021/07/22/royals-made-land-rover-ultimate-status-symbol/:- How the Royals made the Land Rover the ultimate status symbol What started out as a hybrid between an Army Jeep, a tractor and car now has a triple Royal Warrant – and has morphed into a ’superbrand’ ByStephen Armstrong22 July 2021 • 7:07pm As product placement goes, it’s both entrancing and confusing – Prince George marking his eighth birthday in front of a Land Rover, wearing a John Lewis shirt. Perhaps unsurprisingly, it’s the Land Rover that has garnered the attention, following Prince Philips’s love of the marque extending to the self-designed custom-built Land Rover Defender that carried his coffin during his funeral in April. Which some people would have thought a bit odd, but never mind. While John Lewis does have a Royal Warrant from the Queen, Land Rover is one of only 14 companies to boast the complete set from the only Royals entitled to bestow such a blessing – the Queen (614 issued), Prince Charles (173 doled out) and Prince Philip (just 35 – which all expire in two years’ time). Land Rover’s fellow triple Warrant champs include the obvious Barbour, the outdoor clothing maker; the not unexpected Hatchards bookselling chain; the intriguing Unitech Complete Computing and the more-information-than-I-needed Blossom and Browne’s dry cleaners. (Harrods, you may recall, lost its triple Royal Warrant in 2000 – technically, according to the Palace, due to the “significant decline in the trading relationship” between the Duke of Edinburgh and the store. Mohamed Fayed accusing Prince Philip of masterminding the 1997 Paris car crash that killed Princess Diana and his son Dodi apparently had nothing to do with it.) What with the whole bespoke Land Rover hearse business, it’s clear that Prince Philip was devoted to the Land Rover to the end – which is curious as the existence of the vehicle is essentially the result of a blag. In the 1930s, Rover – run by brothers Spencer and Maurice Wilks – sold saloon cars for bank managers and solicitors. “Seemly, not flash and the best thing you could get south of a Bentley,” explains Giles Chapman, author of Land Rover, Gripping Photos of the 4x4 Pioneer. Post-war rationing favoured mass exporters – 50 per cent of sales had to be overseas for car makers to qualify for an allocation of scarce post-war steel – so Rover’s low key Solihull factory stood idle until Maurice had a eureka moment. He’d been using an Army-surplus Jeep to mend fences and catch sheep on his Anglesey farm and realised that if he could rip off the 80-inch wheelbase and 4x4 drive, then build a basic machine out of aluminium, he could dodge the rationing rules and offer farmers a cross between a tractor and a car. Indeed, says Chapman, the early prototypes had a tractor-style central seat and the first model had the steering wheel in the middle of the dashboard. “Maurice shamelessly used the Jeep as inspiration – with solid axles and leaf springs front and back, which was perfect for mud and country roads but murder on the M1,” Chapman explains. The company donated the 100th vehicle to King George VI, which proved a branding sweet spot for Wilks and Windsors alike, and the beginning of an enduring love affair. The “go anywhere” working car “for the farmer, the countryman and general industrial use” gave off a classless vibe that suited the whole monarch-of-the-people look which felt appropriate in 1950s austerity Britain and the first Royal Warrant followed in 1951. The Queen and Prince Philip ramped up the relationship considerably, taking a customised Land Rover on their six-month tour of Australia in 1954. Since then, the Queen herself is believed to have owned around 30 of the vehicles. “She’s got farm managers to run her estates, obviously, but the Land Rover is perfect for Balmoral and Windsor,” says Chapman. “The Queen took a course in fixing trucks during the war so is handy with a spanner. She could fix her own car with basic tools, which not something you’ll see today.” Basic tools were all you'd need to keep an old Land Rover running, which was a big part of the appeal. And when Rover management saw the Jeep Wagoneer – essentially a more comfortable Jeep – in the suburban US in 1963, they decided to launch their own version, taking the Land Rover utility vehicle and launching the Range Rover Sports Utility Vehicle. The Windsors were very early customers. The first Range Rover, it’s worth pointing out to today’s Chelsea school-run set, was still pretty much a working vehicle. The suspension may have had coiled springs but had plastic seats, wind-down windows and no carpet – all designed so you could clean it out with a hose after your dogs had made a mess in the back. It may not have been designed specifically for the Queen, but you can see the appeal. And while the appeal of the Land Rover to the Royals is one thing, it’s a relationship that cuts the other way too. Photographs such as this week’s birthday image of Prince George provide the kind of advertising that money can’t buy. Land Rover is essentially the Royal Warrant to end all Royal Warrants – but what is a Warrant worth? In 2018, brand valuation consultancy Brand Finance estimated that some companies earn up to five per cent of their revenue as a result of the Royal Warrant. More recently, however, digital marketing agency iCrossing UK asked more than 3,500 people for their thoughts on the Royal Warrant and found 87 per cent of them had ‘no idea’ what it was. The agency also found that 30 per cent of those people had bought something due to an influencer’s post on social media, suggesting a Warrant is slightly less useful than a decent hashtag. “This brings up the question of how important the Royal Warrant is to consumers today and whether brands should even seek to be awarded a Royal Warrant of Appointment if no one knows what it is,” says Jill Alger, digital strategist at iCrossing. This, argues Rory Sutherland, vice chairman of adland giant Ogilvy, is short-term thinking. A Royal Warrant helps overseas sales – no American can buy a product with a presidential seal of approval, he points out, but its true value lies in something entirely antithetical to influencer culture. For a company to earn a Warrant, its products have to be in regular use by the specific senior Royal for at least five years out of the preceding seven. “It’s something that is slow to be approved and slow to be withdrawn – like a special Amazon rating showing that a business will behave more ethically and be averse to what Karl Marx called the ‘icy water of egotistical calculation,’” he explains. “There is a moral and ethical dimension to the selection – the Royal family were decisive in demoralising fur wearing in the UK, for instance, and Jaguar Land Rover is pushing its electric cars very hard. True, the Royal influence is not as powerful as it was in the Edwardian era, where the King leaving the bottom button of his waistcoat undone set the national trend, but there’s a heuristic that if the Queen buys something it must at least be all right.” For Land Rover, a subsidiary of India's Tata Motors since 2008, this is all theoretical. In 1990, the classic no-frills vehicle was relaunched as the Land Rover Defender (to distinguish it from the marque’s sister models, Discovery and Freelander), but in January 2016 the final car rolled off the production line at Solihull after 68 years – a victim of tougher emissions and safety laws. In 2020, the replacement Defender was launched to stunned reviews – all the magic of the stripped-down rough rider that Her Majesty could fix with a spanner was gone. It had finally morphed into a status symbol machine beloved of footballers’ wives and wealthy west Londoners, a million miles from its roots. No wonder Prince Philip decided to make his own. So sturdy were the original banged-together hard-working 4x4s that some 75 per cent of the originals are believed to have survived, including the first model donated to George VI, which was found buried under some junk in a garage in Ballater, Aberdeenshire. Prince Charles saw the car there in 2007 on a tour of local businesses but seemed perfectly content to leave the thing there. Perhaps that’s the future for both Land Rovers and Royal Warrants alike, argues Alger. “Considering the diminishing awareness of this age-old marketing mechanism, we’re likely to see the Royal family demonstrate their brand advocacy in more contemporary ways,” she argues. “The Warrant could be seen as one of the earliest forms of influencer marketing. It’s built on the same principle – audience affinity and brand advocacy. We’re more likely to buy a product when we see it modelled on someone we relate to or aspire to be like. As seen with Prince George posing with a Land Rover, for instance.”

Always report shortages - and the blaming the aircon. Too many customers complaining will get the cashier checked by internal audit. I've had to organise an intimate search under caution before now, as the errant cashier, already under suspicion, was ratted out by an ex-partner and even the union couldn't object anymore. (ex-Internal Audit, local authorities, credit union and insurance broker).

Just to complete Jamie_grieve's post, here is the second video in the series. His conclusion amused me, but I guess key is this is a vehicle designed in the last 5 years, whereas the old Defender was (mostly) a Series III plonked on a Range Rover chassis, with an dash-pack stolen from random parts in the BL/ARG/Rover bin, followed by less random parts from BMW, Ford and commodity European and Far Eastern parts suppliers. If it failed the "better than the old Defender" test, then Ineos, Jim Radcliffe and Toby Ecuyer should be paraded naked through the streets of London.

The person who never made a mistake never did anything! Thankfully most of my spannering mistakes have been time consuming and/or messy rather than expensive. It is not good for the ego when beloved wife collapses in a heap giggling, at the sight of you blinking like a surprised black owl, then refuses to let you into the house until you have wiped off the worst with a mixture of workshop and baby wipes.

From the pictures you have provided, it looks pretty good, but Defenders can be tarted up very easily, so bitter experience suggests being cautious. The cost seems huge, but I guess that is local market issues. Is the front bulkhead perfect and is it steel? Test with a magnet. What state is the rear crossmember in? Test with a magnet. Is it dripping oil anywhere? From where and how much? Does it start easily and does it smoke?

Having an EPC and full manuals on the vehicle would be great, but the screen is not that big; I'd love a conventional DVD/CD so I can print bits off! I'd even be wiling to spend some money on it, to get the most up to date one, so long as it is not much more than £20 a time. . Any guesses on the OBD access? Via the screen or plug in a reader? I have thought long and hard about access to service; I've had issues with main dealers every time I gave them a vehicle! I'm likely to check that what I'm told has been done is done and I have been disappointed too often. (The text below has been hacked around from entries I have posted on Pistonheads, but summarises my thoughts) The elephant in the room Ineos need to solve for me is servicing and the availability of spares and maintenance data. Back when the project was launched, the concept was "open source" and collaboration with agricultural repairers and smaller independent businesses. If that means I can buy parts as a private individual/small fleet operator and get factory support, (a posh pdf manual, helpline and a service wiki would do), I will be well content. If Ineos can avoid building, (and paying for), a dealer network and harness the goodwill of smaller businesses, they could rejuvenate the small country garage or non-franchised mechanical repair shops worldwide. If they sort the service and maintenance side, the Grenadier should start to sell themselves - lifetime cost of ownership, not the starting cost is the driver here for businesses. OK. So what are the alternatives? The Tesla approach or the conventional motor dealer approach? Neither seem particularly functional at the moment, as Tesla seems to be beset with supply, crash damage repair and servicing issues and the big dealer chains have their own issues, often around paying peanuts and getting monkeys. People are getting rich in the motor trade, but it is not the ones with the diagnostic laptop and the spanners. My favourite franchised dealers were the single site, family owned ones, which are now both uneconomic, (they cannot afford the franchise fee), and very unfashionable, (even if they had the franchise fee, the principal wouldn't award it), which is a terrible shame as they were often marque enthusiasts and often went the extra mile with customer service. Ineos Automotive have previously said the vehicle will be as simple as possible and capable of maintenance in the field, (have a look at the Halo Trust video, https://player.vimeo.com/video/558095245). This is much like the support experience for many agricultural engineers who did engineering at college and are now working for the likes of the tractor manufacturers, plant makers or are self employed. Say Ineos Automotive offered a low or no cost repair franchise to individuals or businesses who can show suitable experience in a mechanical servicing role. The engines and gearboxes will still need specialist repair in the event of catastrophic failure, (no change there), but the rest of the vehicle is no more complex than the plant/tractors/milking machinery they are already dealing with. Diagnosis is always key; is the engine really broken or is the wire to a sensor broken? OBD makes a big difference, but experience of proper fault tracing is very useful. Some retail buyers may be put off by the lack of shiny glass and chrome retail palaces, but the Grenadier isn't aimed at retail buyers, and those that do are looking for an experience. (I can assure them that visiting my local agri engineer is an experience!) Originally Ineos talked about "open source" access to technical data; on balance I think they need to retain some control on who works on their vehicles with access to spares and the franchise model allows that, but keeping it cheap would reduce massively the barriers to entry and hopefully the maintenance cost overall. (Jamie_grieve's comment about traceability rang a bell). I do not see this as "Camel Trophy romance", more a reinvention of the corner garage and the non-chain franchised service dealer. We are not talking about many vehicles here, a small fleet garage could take on the franchise just for access to full service support for their own vehicles. The more I think about it, I would be willing to spend more on a premium product, but it has to be premium in a manner I value, not a turd rolled in glitter. For me, that is serviceability, reliability and longevity, not impressing the Jones's. (And they were impressed when I briefly parked an £80k LR Defender 90 on the drive!)

For me the serviceability is probably most important - I'm not a mud monster. Is it likely I can service it on my drive, without a lift? Were there any hints about service and technical data?

With all due respect, they said one thing and did another! Troubleshooter virtually doubled their wait time. Neither Peter nor Charles were keen on radical change, but they re-priced to the market and started to reduce the waiting list. I went from being able to buy a new Morgan to finding they were just too expensive for me, (in the queue at the time). Money they earnt following the price rises stopped them going broke, helped finance a new line, Aero, and brought development to a more professional, (but not always effective level, see new 3 wheeler) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7182857.stm (Not a great summary, Wikipedia is probably better)

Most of them are just a rehash of the press release, the Grenadier footage and Ken Burns effect over the press pack pictures. I posted the Overland Europe video as it is original and with a slightly different emphasis. They all had the same embargo, so presumably all launched at the same time. Although I have watched more YouTube videos, unless they're novel or interesting I won't link them here. Watching the same footage in German, French and Australian has been educational!