monkie

This is a very interesting post, thank you. I would say from my observations that I had total loss of pressure. But as you can see in my pictures the oil pump seemed have been working... As far as I can tell with it in bits. On some pictures I have seen, there appears to be a ball as part of the pressure relief valve. Mine didn't have one and I didn't put one in with the rebuild kit. I had a plunger, spring and retaining screw. Could I have put the plunger in backwards on a moment of madness as Western asked? I don't think I did as to me it looks like it should only go in one way. If I had put it in backwards, as embarrassing as that would be, it would give me the definitive smoking gun I'm looking for. So, which way round should you put the steel plunger?

Yes, it's been out. I remove the shells to see them all round. I'm not ruling out any silly mistake on my part. But that is a posed photo with the shell in loose just popped back on the cap to show you all. I'm wondering if this is down to a silly mistake on my part or cutting of corners: I should have got the crank looked at by an engineering shop and I definitely should have used Plastigage with the new shells. When I rebuilt a 19J I took the crank to them and they said it looked worse than it really was and I could have got away with new shells. I think that comment perhaps filled me with false confidence this time round?

When the realisation hit that I had no choice but to remove the engine and strip it down again when I was so close to testing out a nice fresh engine and gearbox, my heart totally sank and was daunted. I really appreciate everyone's input and helpful thoughts. It's made me take a pragmatice approach and find the fault and build it back up fresh. Thanks guys.

Last pics of the night. I took the oil pump apart and can rule out oil pump failure. Relief valve was not stuck. There is some scoring on the top face of the housing and the rotors the confirm it was indeed turning. No debris in the pump, and no marks on the rotors.

Absolutely. The crank looks worse on those pictures than in real life, but I shall take it to my local engineering shop to have them do the necessary.

I didn't rev it and the turbo feels okay in terms of rotating freely and minimal end float. Here's some pics of the bearings. Big end 1, main bearing 2, big end 2 from left to right.

Good point. Mustn't forget pumps make flow not pressure.

I think the strip down of the oil pump will be interesting. I'll try and do it this evening and post some pictures of what I find. If something has gone wrong with oil pump it would explain the lack of pressure at the sender.

Each possibility raises new questions for me that I'm struggling to answer: Would a failed big end bearing cause oil pressure to drop to almost nothing at the sender? How could a big end bearing be assembled incorrectly or be dodgy to cause failure in such a short time under no load? But then again, if it isn't a dodgy or incorrectly installed bearing, why would just 1 fail? EDIT: the bearings were supplied by Turners, I think they were King brand which I understand to be a reputable make.

Could be. I'll recheck, but the con rods were all checked, but the thing I didn't do (now thinking I should) is use a Plastigage on the bearings. Let's assume there is something wrong with that big end, how could it stop all pressure? Bits of bearing clogging up the pump? Before I go further with the engine, I will strip the pump. I'll also put some photos up in the week when I get time. Let's look on the brightside. Hopefully when the problem is found, put right and the engine back in: I will be able to find diesel freely to fill the tank!!

The thing I don't understand and I'm wondering if it is a clue is the damage done to big end bearing on number 2 where the damage on the rest is minimal. Wondering if the oil ways in the crank are blocked, but why would that result in a sudden drop off in pressure?

I rebuilt a defender 200Tdi (I'll detail what I did and didn't do further down). All the parts I used were supplied by Turners, so nothing from a blue box. Quality mineral engine oil used at correct spec and quantity. Engine in, all the necessaries conected up so I fired it up. It started straight away and sounded lovely - sweet as a nut, no smoke other than the usual puff as it starts. I was extrememly pleased. Then the next day when I started and ran the engine to get it to temperature, I noticed the oil presure starting to drop quite quickly (I have a Stack guage fitted). I quicky pulled the oil feed to the turbo off hopign for it to be squirting out - no oil. I very quickly undid the oil pressure sender and oil just trickled out, I would expect it to gush out with it at idle. I then immediately cut the power to the engine to stop it running. I initially took the rocker cover off and the rocker shaft looked fine. I took the engine out in just 90 minutes (its amazing how quickly you can do this when the exact location of all the nuts, bolts and pipes are fresh in your mind), got it on a stand flipped upside down and removed the sump and ladder frame. There was some slithers of copper metal in the sump (tell tale sign of bearing material). This is what I have found so far: The oil pump seemed fine, no cracks, the pick up pipe was okay, the oil pump had oil in it as I removed it. The drive shaft to the oil pump turned when the engine was turned over by hand. I pulled the main bearing caps off and the white metal was a little scuffed but nothing worrying, the crank journals were fine. I pulled the big end caps from the con rods. 1, 3 and 4 were a little scuffed but fine. Crank okay. Bearing on piston 2 was down to the copper and had some slithers off it (explains the metal in the sump). Crank looks okay. This is as far as I have got with the dissmantling. I'm now starting to think that maybe the dreaded cam bearing has moved? This is what I did on the rebuild: Engine completely stripped down to bear block Degreased and cleaned all parts and inspected/measured them for wear New main bearing shells New big end shells New thrust washers (crank end-float was in spec so used standard size) New piston rings (honed the bores) Rebuilt the oil pump with the kit from Turners including new pressure releif valve New valve springs New timing belt New top and bottom end gaskets/seals New injector nozzles I did not renew the cam shaft or the cambearings but did use a new cam thrust washer (standard), all was in spec. As I assembled the engine I used an assembly lubricant on all bearing surfaces to ensure good lubrication on start up. I'm at a loss so far as to the cause. I'll keep on going with the strip down until I find the smoking gun. Anyone have any ideas?

That photo was one Ian sent me. I have got the original plastic one.

I've transferred the setup across from @ianmayco68200tdi. It is an electric pump which is feed via a relay switched from the alternator charge warning feed.

Yes, the fuel injection timing does have dramatic effects to the running and ease of starting. You can adjust the pump timing without taking the belt off. Set the crank to Tdc, the pump timing pin should slide in easy. If not you can slacken the pump pulley screws adjust the pump timing whilst the pulley stays static until the pin slides in easy then tighten the screws back up.

This is a very interesting thread with some interesting thoughts. Please update us when the issue(s) is found.

What do you mean by now known? Known by who?

By genuine I mean sourced from an LR dealer and supplied in LR packaging. Yes it will probably cost more but it will mean you won't be revisiting the job anytime soon.

I would start by looking at the lift pump. I have been very lucky with them, but have now gone electric. Other members on here have reported even with Delphi ones that they just don't seem to last, so if you last looked at this 3 years ago then it is worth going straight to this even if it is just to rule it out.

From what you say, this is a problem that just manifests itself under load. The MOT tests are done under no load so don't really have any bearing on what ever is going on in my opinion. Getting it to someone who knows the tdi engines is a good idea. I think it would be wise first to conduct some simple tests to help your mechanic out. I would suggest the following if your able to: Remove your raised air intake to rule out any restriction that could be caused by that. Remove the rocker cover and check the rocker cearances. Take the rocker shaft off so you can inspect each push rod (roll them on a flat surface such as a sheet of glass to check they are straight). Check that you are getting fuel from the lift pump (there are some topics on here about this if you search - IIRC hand priming alone doesn't neccessarily verify the lift pump is working as it should do) Double check your intercooler hoses that the are on right and not causing a restriction I assume the filters (air and fuel) are clean. Thats a good start to rule out the simple stuff to allow your mechanic to concentrate elsewhere. I think a compression test would be a good start as an indication to general engine health.

I don't think the stupid and selfish component of the British public should be let off the hook by just blaming journalists, the blame in my view lands firmly with each selfish fool who knee jerked and bought fuel they didn't need without thought for anyone else. Events over the past few years have proven again and again that a number of the British population are simply not capable of rational thought and sound decision making. I'm now waiting for reports of idiots that have stored fuel in an unsafe way causing a fire - I hope I am proven wrong on this last point.

Thinking logically it has to be to with either fuel, air or compression. You mention you have had the injection pump serviced and checked over, what about fuel from the tank to FIP (ie lift pump)? Do you know what is happening in terms of boost pressure when under oad? What about valve clearances? Could a pushrod be bent? Have you done a compression test?

Yes it is possible. I've only done the T seals with the engine out on a 19J and 200tdi and they both a massive pain to do properly so doing it whilst on your back will be even more of a pain. I would strongly recommend from experience with any type of oil seal on the engine, only get genuine LR if you want the job to last. Get a couple of pairs of T seals incase you bugger 1 set up, they are a tight fit.

I wouldn't have thought so as the air enters the tank as the petrol level drops when in use. The best bet would be to keep the tank above half full where possible. I'm not sure how much an issue this really is to be honest. Water in a diesel tank builds up from condensation forming from the air in a partly filled tank. Petrol however has a much higher vapour pressure than diesel does and the ethanol content of the fuel will stop it from just sitting there as it will in a diesel tank, so I can't see this being the issue some people claim. I'm sure this will just blow over with E10 petrol.

The serial number stamped on the LT230 should tell you (assuming no one has altered the gearing).