OT white vans

[Mo Murphy]

Some of the Renault/Vauxhall vans are British but (Sorry Mo) they are carp quality.

It's OK Chris, no need to apologise but 100,000 vans out of our plant this year (and each is an order, no more fields of vans) with the lines running 24 hrs a day 5 days a week, says you are wrong ! GME want an extra 5000 on top of that next year too.

Young Fridge, regarding the Vivaro, I think your probs are more to do with BTs fleet specs rather than the van themselves. IIRC they had the smallest engine in the range and the lowest spec poss. the lack of room may be down to all that racking you have in the back but there is a LWB version As for comfort, that's very subjective as I've always found them to be quiet and jolly comfy, and I've done a few miles in them too

Will, go out and test drive a variety of vans. Buy or lease the one that suits your needs and budget.

Mo

[GBMUD]

It's OK Chris, no need to apologise but 100,000 vans out of our plant this year (and each is an order, no more fields of vans) with the lines running 24 hrs a day 5 days a week, says you are wrong ! GME want an extra 5000 on top of that next year too.

To be fair Mo, my experience is with the Vauxhall version of the Renault Master, do you make them? I have also drivern the Renault version and it is no better. IIRC you make the smaller van of which I have no experience.

With respect Mo, just because people are buying certain vans does not imply that they are any good: The firm I used to work for stopped buying Mercedes after 20 years of buying Merc vans (they were buying and not leasing) and started buying Vauxhalls. The reason was unit cost of the vehicle in a climate where they were being pushed to save money. In the longer term they cost more money to run over their working life (~200k miles) as they used more fuel - I do not know if this is true across the board of engines, but it is true of the base model engine. The drivers did not like them and, on one of them the seat mounting frame fell apart and there were a number of problems with poor quality trim and, IIRC, doors being a problem.

Chris

[Mo Murphy]

Masters are built in France Chris. The Vivaro/ Trafic/ Primavan are built here m8.

With respect Mo, just because people are buying certain vans does not imply that they are any good

With 5 years of year on year sales increases, I beg to differ.

Mo

[FridgeFreezer]

Mo - with all due respect that's balls. BT will probably end up buying between 5 and 10,000 of your vehicles over the next few years but as you have said that does not mean it's because they're good - it just means they're cheap! We are convinced at work that the BT spec ones even have less paint on them than normal, do you know if that's true? (We had a spate of Fiestas whose bonnets went matt-finish in 6 months!)

Yes the BT racking does knock 6 inches off each side of the interior, but even avoiding the racking and going diagonally you can't get "long things" (EG standard lengths of conduit/wood/metal in the thing.

The vivaro of mine is also not very economical, in fact worse than the full-size Transit it replaced. I haven't calculated the MPG but I can squeeze 375 miles out of a tank of diesel which would be about £60-£65 to fill up makes me glad I have a fuel card. The BT roof-mounted climbing frame probably doesn't help. I also reckon the rev limiter is set low (again would this be done at BT's request) as it will not go over 4k rpm

[jules]

I would look at Iveco, Sprinter, LT, Renault master, in fact most things other than Transits, Ford still have sorted out their rust problems and the FWD ones have gearbox/clutch problems.

I'm not sure what Jules means by...

They go all the way up to 6.5T (65C17) and the LWH H3 is one of if not the largest panel van you can buy.

http://www.whatvan.co.uk may be of some use/interest.

The Iveco's have big strong and heavy chassis meaning pound for pound the weight capacity is fractionally less that others.

And my dads larger Iveco's would on average do 5mpg less than his previous Leyland Daf 95 which was only 16mpg.

and when doing 1500 miles a week that costs a lot of money more for a newer truck and it had a very well used warranty but it was the 7.5 ton range not the smaller trucks. After 350,000 miles or so he would not go for another

[Mo Murphy]

Yes, Fridge but because they're cheap doesn't make them bad !

Agreed, with all that ironwork on the outside and heavy racking inside coupled with the smallest engine it's going to have to be driven hard to go anywhere which isn't going to help fuel consumption at all, good job you don't have to pay

What is the roof rack for ? Could you carry the longer lengths of material on it ?

I couldn't say about the paint thickness but I wouldn't think it's any different to the others since they all travel through the paint process at the same speed, so any paint saved would be negligable and the savings would be offset by the need for a another robot programme (I think they have enough trouble with the ones they have !). I know that paint thickness is something that is checked regularly, with ultra sound I think.

The ECUs for the engines are all the same per engine type so if that was changed it would be by outside contracters perhaps by the outfitting company. There is a security screw in a high collar on the top of the ECU box on the LH side of the engine bay and one in the side as well, I believe these are fitted to all UK spec vehicles so if they've been tampered with then perhaps the ECU has been modified.

I think we can all agree at least, that it's not so much the van that's the problem but the specs that are forced on the fleet buyers by BTs accountants. What you need Fridge is the LWB 2.5 ltr, you could throw that roof rack away then

Mo

[general-confusion]

I run a 99 ford transit 190 lwb semi hi top and have had no problems with it done 135k around central London...never serviced apart from cam belt

and oil level checks (never changed the oil!!!). I am told the later transits suffer from too many electronics and will run this till it dies (that will be rust!!)

[kkk2]

No one has mentioned Toyota Vans we run these and are trouble free, nice to drive and economical to run.

[Andy]

do toymota do vans that big? i cant recall seeing one offhand. however hi-ace 2.4D from about R-reg goes sideways soooooooooooo well its untrue, was almost a crime to take money for playing (read delivering) in that one

[pugwash]

LDV minibuses go sideways bloody well too- as a student i drove minibuese between campuses in Cardiff- there was one huge roundabout which was invariably deserted late at night. With an empty bus, the rear would step out at 40 under provocation! it was so easy to control too. i managed 2 whole laps of the r/about sideways once- i was dead chuffed!

[FridgeFreezer]

Yes, Fridge but because they're cheap doesn't make them bad !

True enough, but I find the dash layout sucks (no cubby holes just slopey surfaces that everything falls off when you change direction), a cup-holder that doesn't hold anything bigger than a small McD's coffee, nowhere to put pens and other vital nik-naks (the Transit at least had a bucket-sized hole in the top of the dash and a separate bit for a mobile & pens) and a glove-box barely big enough to hold the owner's manual. Oh and whose bright idea was it to put the battery under the passenger's feet? Also the dash comes so far into the cabin, and the screen slopes so far forwards that it's like driving from the back seat. Then there's the uncomfortable seats with only one adjustment on them (again the Transit even at BT-spec you could get comfy) and the fact that the swoopy side windows mean the window ledge where one would usually rest an arm you just slide off instead.

There's also little niggles like the wash/wipe switch where the procedure is:

- For a single wipe, pull the switch towards you

- To wash the windscreen, pull the switch towards you by an extra 0.1mm

And the stereo "on" button that, even when firmly pushed so it goes "click" doesn't actually turn on unless you push it that extra .1mm and hold for a second.

And the remote keyfob with a range of about 10cm from the vehicle - when you're stood at the back door of the van you're almost out of range!

What is the roof rack for ? Could you carry the longer lengths of material on it ?

The roof rack is for ladders, and has a long-thing holder tube too. I actually asked for a van with no ladder racks, just the amber beacon, but again due to BT general incompetence they can't possibly work out how to attach a small amber light to the roof of a vehicle without first bolting a climbing frame on! I actually put in a suggestion through the official channels in BT that they could unbolt un-used racks and save £££'s on their fuel bills but it was deemed far too difficult to offer a beacon on its own.

Yes I can use the roof rack to move long things, but:

a) If you have more than a tube's worth of bits then technically you're stuffed as the ladder rack is for ladders (BT are very hot on HSE especially when they can b*ll*ck you over it)

b) If you're trying to recycle some nice lengths of steel it's a very visible and akward means of transport it means you have to bring in an accomplice to help you load the roof rack too.

I think we can all agree at least, that it's not so much the van that's the problem but the specs that are forced on the fleet buyers by BTs accountants. What you need Fridge is the LWB 2.5 ltr, you could throw that roof rack away then

Only if they have better interiors, TBH of the last few vans I've had the old the R-reg transit would be my choice of the lot!