Jessie the dog Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 I have recently bought a S2 and all of the wheel hubs are missing one or more studs. I have them, not sure why they were removed. I am totally puzzled as to how I should fit them. They are threaded and have a rough spline at the shoulder.. I have screwed them in the extent of the thread, but it seems impossible to then ‘knock’ them onto the splined shoulder which is roughly the same diameter as the thread. Hope that was clear, any advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 I don’t know when they changed ... but S1 and I’m assuming early S2 had BSF studs that were threaded at both ends, and peened over on the back to lock them in. Later these were changed to the splined shoulder type you describe, which were meant for a larger hole and to be pressed through from the back. (i.e not screwed in) It sounds like you have the first type of hole and the later type of stud. Now you can get the original type of stud and you could (in order of correctness/bodge) find a way to pean/press them over on the back edge, or chemically bond them in, or (horror) put a blob of weld on them. The other option is to drill them out, countersink the back so it sits flush and comes through enough, and then press them in. I have just replaced 2 on my series one... 1 had been pushed through and welded, badly. It was absurdly short. Another was one that had been drilled out and pressed in - but it was now seized and hadn’t been countersunk and as a result was short on the face. So I replaced both with the later type countersunk - primarily because both holes had been enlarged with no opportunity to put in the original types. I got an engineer to do it - with them having been bodged I didn’t feel I had much leeway to get it right, and my old puller drill and an angle grinder didn’t seem Like the safest approach. Happy to take some photos of that would help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 The early threaded type don't like being undone or done up with a rattle gun and come loose easily . As they wind out the thread in the hub gets damaged by the staked points . I have the same problem on the 88 S2a I'm working on now . I wondered about using the later M16 fine knock in type but turning the stud down to 9/16" and threading 9/16" BSF ? Not quite as good as the standard rolled thread but better than two different threads on one hub ? Do you have a link to the new std. BSF studs ? cheers Steve b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie the dog Posted April 1, 2020 Author Share Posted April 1, 2020 Hi both, thanks for your input. On the basis of a photo being worth a thousand, i have take a few. I just cannot see how they were inserted originally. The thread in the hub is the same as the stud, so one cannot pass through the other without being screwed in. The shoulder is about 0.9mm interference fit to the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 2 hours ago, steve b said: The early threaded type don't like being undone or done up with a rattle gun and come loose easily . As they wind out the thread in the hub gets damaged by the staked points . I have the same problem on the 88 S2a I'm working on now . I wondered about using the later M16 fine knock in type but turning the stud down to 9/16" and threading 9/16" BSF ? Not quite as good as the standard rolled thread but better than two different threads on one hub ? Do you have a link to the new std. BSF studs ? cheers Steve b Here Steve - these are the BSF press in studs: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F322352720203 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 After losing all but two studs from a rear hub after overtaking a car I replaced them in the field (literally with no other tools than a hammer) with the newer studs with no drilling that i recall? I would never use screw in studs again. The shoulder will stop the stud pulling through and the splines only need to bite to stop the stud from spinning when the nut is added. Once tight it cannot pull out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 14 minutes ago, Anderzander said: Here Steve - these are the BSF press in studs: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F322352720203 Thanks , I didn't know knock in BSF studs are available , that should sort it out with some Loctite if needed . I learn something on here almost daily , what a great place cheers Steve b 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 Why Loctite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 I just need to clean it and buzzweld it now ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 (edited) In my case the thread has gone completely in the missing stud hole and will accept a 9/16" drill bit .. worth a try , I know knock in studs do not need anything normally . cheers Steve b Edited April 1, 2020 by steve b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie the dog Posted April 1, 2020 Author Share Posted April 1, 2020 All, i am non the wiser about refitting my studs. The term knock in suggests you hammer or better still press them into place. I just cannot see that with mine as the thread in the hub matches the thread on the stud so it will never knock through. Even screwing them in to the end of the thread leave almost a full thread engaged before the splines. Am in being a little thick here? Is it possible the ones fitted are fully threaded? I am not sure why I would have some many with the thread and splines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 4 hours ago, Anderzander said: It sounds like you have the first type of hole and the later type of stud. To rephrase the above and hopefully make it clearer.... You have the wrong type of studs. Your hub is meant to have thread in studs -with top of the stud pressed / staked. The press fit / knock in studs are meant for a hub with a larger hole* * and to on mine were shorter if just pressed in without countersinking the head. So you either need to modify the hub to take the knock in type of Studs you have ..... or get the right type and work out how you will stake it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 26 minutes ago, Jessie the dog said: Is it possible the ones fitted are fully threaded? I am not sure why I would have some many with the thread and splines. They are. Here are the S1 original type : https://www.dingocroft.co.uk/acatalog/Wheel-Stud-for-Series-1-217360.html#SID=108 Did these other studs come with the car? If so my guess would be that they were bought and then the person realised they won’t fit. The knock in ones superceded the original type - so if someone ordered some new ones they would likely have turned up and not fitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 1 hour ago, missingsid said: After losing all but two studs from a rear hub after overtaking a car I replaced them in the field (literally with no other tools than a hammer) with the newer studs with no drilling that i recall? If you lost all the thread I think you would have been able to just pull/knock it in. I’ve seen them drilled out 14mm which will only take a fraction more than the threads out. If the threads are there though - I think it’s enough to stop it going in. 9/16 BSF tapping drill size is 1/2” - so under 13mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 Good point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondjeremy Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 You can fit small studs easily, remove thread and pull into place with a nut. Nice to recess them into the hub at the back, They are a bit shorter - being intended for the single - ended nut. Larger nuts (27mm spanner size) are available for the 9/16 thread. Paddocks usually display a range on their website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romahomepete Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 (edited) Referring to the "smaller" 9/16 wheel studs What happens when the stud comes loose is that the peened over bit raggs the thread in the hub making it loose so that in an ememrgency a pull in stud can be forced into place. The best solution is to take the hub off and using a pillar drill enlarge the hole to 9/16, then using a suitable end mill still in the pillar drill reieve the back of the hub so trhat the flange on the stud is recessed. You can pull the stud in using a spare nut, washer and some grease. If you dont recess the hub when everything is assebled and the wheel back on the stud is short in the wheel nut. You can off course buy longer studs but they are extortionate. Most people dont bother but you do get funny looks from folk that dont understand that the double nuts are twice the length. You can also buy single flare nuts in the small 9/16 size. Replacement screw in studs are not available It is worth pointing out that with the rears on a S1 you cannot do the above, you can drill the holes with a 9/16 drill but you cannot get to the rear of the hub to create a space for the head Peter Edited April 4, 2020 by Romahomepete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondjeremy Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 Screw studs are availble: https://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/search/results.html?s=561590 https://www.lrdirect.com/561590-Wheel-Stud-Ser-122A-Early/?keep_https=yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 Yes - I linked to one above too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie the dog Posted May 13, 2020 Author Share Posted May 13, 2020 Hi there, i have just returned to this issue. As I get closer to getting on the road, i am more concerned about the security of the wheels! Anderzander was co On 4/1/2020 at 10:51 AM, Anderzander said: I don’t know when they changed ... but S1 and I’m assuming early S2 had BSF studs that were threaded at both ends, and peened over on the back to lock them in. Later these were changed to the splined shoulder type you describe, which were meant for a larger hole and to be pressed through from the back. (i.e not screwed in) It sounds like you have the first type of hole and the later type of stud. Now you can get the original type of stud and you could (in order of correctness/bodge) find a way to pean/press them over on the back edge, or chemically bond them in, or (horror) put a blob of weld on them. The other option is to drill them out, countersink the back so it sits flush and comes through enough, and then press them in. I have just replaced 2 on my series one... 1 had been pushed through and welded, badly. It was absurdly short. Another was one that had been drilled out and pressed in - but it was now seized and hadn’t been countersunk and as a result was short on the face. So I replaced both with the later type countersunk - primarily because both holes had been enlarged with no opportunity to put in the original types. I got an engineer to do it - with them having been bodged I didn’t feel I had much leeway to get it right, and my old puller drill and an angle grinder didn’t seem Like the safest approach. Happy to take some photos of that would help. Hi there, i have returned to this issue as I am getting close to getting on the road and frankly the wheels aren’t roadworthy at the moment. You are bang on the money with your assessment that i have the first type of hole and the second type of stud (mainly). The net effect is that the splined stud which isn’t countersunk, is 8mm too short. Solutions... I am unsure how I could counterbore the back of the hub. I’d rather not remove them all. Does anybody know if there a longer splined stud available, about 50mm. This must have cropped up before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondjeremy Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 Or you could use later single ended nuts. Late S2a's use a short 15/16 nut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romahomepete Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Zeus, the land rover disc conversion company sell extended studs about £40 for an axle set. They are shown at the bottom of page 1. http://www.zeus.uk.com/index.php?dispatch=categories.view&category_id=3 Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie the dog Posted May 18, 2020 Author Share Posted May 18, 2020 Peter, thanks for the info. I spent some time last week with a very helpful guy at Paddocks (Robert) and we managed to establish that the studs that were used by the previous owner to replace the screw in ones, were undersized by 4mm. I have no idea where they came from, but I have bought a set of correct length studs and I am hopeful that they will resolve this issue. If not I will go to Zeus or use a single ended nut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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