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Replace V8 intermediate serp front cover with no dizzie serp cover?


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The difference is in the pulley and cover, not the crank. The non dizzy cover sits the water pump further back and uses a pulley without a forward extension. You only run into issues trying to fit either serp cover onto a non serp engine. 

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I have what I think is the non dizzy SERP cover sat here along with the crank pulley etc. I know the pulleys are wider on my Thor engine but not sure of the other differences. I can take some measurements or photos if you need anything, just shout.

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Thanks both.

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You only run into issues trying to fit either serp cover onto a non serp engine. 

I actually have a full intermediate engine that I was going to rebuild with a 3.5 block. However, I want it shorter and It looks like I can get an extra inch and a half by dumping the dizzie and fitting the P38 cover. The crank from the intermediate will drive the oil pump but I wasn't sure about the front pulley because the crank nose is shorter than that on a P38.

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Yep, the more modern planetary type direct driven by the crank. The "intermediate" housing still has a dizzy mount, but no oil pump drive underneath. The later one deletes the dizzy hole completely and moves the water pump back into the space freed up along with a much shorter pulley arrangement. 

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I think (but not certain) that you need to change the camshaft - as the cam shaft does not drive for the dizzy it is slightly shorter - but as I said not sure so check.

Yes, I'm pretty sure that it's different. I was going to replace that anyway. I doubt the original has much in the way of bumps left on it.

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1 hour ago, lo-fi said:

Might be interested in the intermediate cover if you're ditching?

Thanks. I'll bear you in mind. I'm just gathering bits at the moment though so it might be a wait!

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From memory, which is bad these days...….

Crank pulley. May need a spacer ?

Possibly the sump as I seem to remember the sump flange is a bit different ?

Another thing...… if you look at the oilway drillings in the 3.5 block ….. from oil pickup to front cover...… and compare them to your intermediate engine, you will see that the later ones are much bigger. Maybe this will affect the performance of the crank driven pump ? Actually ISTR that the later cover doesn't have the drillings, and has a pickup that goes direct from oil pump to sump, instead of through the block.

ISTR Camshaft drive and gears do not fit under the newer cover, so I think the camshaft will be different too.

PS pump is different, as are the alternator mounts.

Its not as simple as it seems. There are probably other things too, but its a long time since I have fiddled.

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I can confirm, the later covers have the oil feed directly to the bottom of the pump. And the camshaft is shorter, it just reaches the sprocket with no 'nose' for the dizzy drive gear.

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More musings.

The assumptions I made were that the intermediate crank and sump would fit the 3.5 block. That the P38 front cover would fit the front of the 3.5 block with the intermediate sump as long as I also used a P38 cam, cam drive chain/sprockets. That the oil pickup from the intermediate would also fit the P38 front cover.

However, hours perusing the internet confirms what has been said above, that the P38 cover will not fit unless the matching P38 sump and oil pick up are also fitted.

I hadn't considered that the oilways in the 3.5 block might not match the cover. However, it looks like that may not be a problem.  I had forgotten about the cam retaining plate too. The 3.5 block won't have the tapped holes necessary to fit it.

I'm still a bit puzzled as to why the P38 crank has a longer nose. I know that you need a spacer if you fit vee belt pulleys on a P38 crank. I might need to do the same, perhaps with a longer  bolt to do the opposite.

The only ancillary I need to drive is an alternator and I was going to mod and move the existing belt tensioner to get a decent wrap around the water pump pulley. I might need to replace the smooth pulley with a grooved one though.

In this thread, somebody is doing the opposite and it’s full of useful pictures. It’s a good read too…

http://www.cobraclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49330&page=20

 

 

Edited by HoggyN
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