kevin50 Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share Posted June 6, 2020 26 minutes ago, reb78 said: Yeah - just looked back and edited my post above. I dont think you can lock them - unless he had a tool to do it (doesnt sound like he has any more tools than you or I though!) Although it's a 300tdi it does have the bolt with little plate that has to be removed. Don't know what he actually did but when I mentioned that Timing could be out, he said it couldn't be as he locked it before talking pully off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) I think that bolt / plate is key to being able to lock the shaft if you do need to remove the pulley. If yours has that little washer/plate then you can do what he did (in part 1 of that pair of videos) and remove it. That allows the bolt to be screwed in further to lock the shaft at the correct position - once you have set the lift using the dti. Then you can refit the pulley in the correct position to allow the timing pin in. Edited June 6, 2020 by Peaklander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin50 Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share Posted June 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Peaklander said: I think that bolt / plate is key to being able to lock the shaft if you do need to remove the pulley. If yours has that little washer/plate then you can do what he did (in part 1 of that pair of videos) and remove it. That allows the bolt to be screwed in further to lock the shaft at the correct position - once you have set the lift using the dti. Then you can refit the pulley in the correct position to allow the timing pin in. Will give it a go when I get Timing Kit. A few people have mentioned that there are 2 slots in Flywheel, Wide and Narrow. I have only gone for one, don't know which one it is but it does line up everything else. never seem the other. Could it be possible that I am using the wrong one ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 My 300TDi has two slots. I think that they are separated within a quarter turn of the flywheel. As I sit here though I think that with the wrong one, you couldn't get the cam mark anywhere near. @reb78 knows far better than I do and he said the same earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin50 Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share Posted June 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, Peaklander said: My 300TDi has two slots. I think that they are separated within a quarter turn of the flywheel. As I sit here though I think that with the wrong one, you couldn't get the cam mark anywhere near. @reb78 knows far better than I do and he said the same earlier. Yes Mate Remember now, when the Pin drops in it is Bang on 12 oclock, and everything else lines up. Was just hoping it would be as simple as that , using the wrong slot. 😀 Never mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 Use the narrow slot in the flywheel, I did mention this a few posts back. the difference in slot width is very noticeable. Kev the photo you posted through the bell housing wading plug hole was the correct narrow slot, the wider one will not all the the crank/cam & FIP to align with the timing marks. reckon your pump needs to be set correctly with the timing pin & DTI, then the hub can be fitted in the right place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin50 Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share Posted June 6, 2020 18 minutes ago, western said: Use the narrow slot in the flywheel, I did mention this a few posts back. the difference in slot width is very noticeable. Kev the photo you posted through the bell housing wading plug hole was the correct narrow slot, the wider one will not all the the crank/cam & FIP to align with the timing marks. reckon your pump needs to be set correctly with the timing pin & DTI, then the hub can be fitted in the right place. Thanks Mate I do remember you saying the Narrow slot but I haven't seen the other one yet to compare, but as said it wouldn't line up marks and pin anyway. Just hope there's nothing else wrong with pump. The money I've spent on these special tools I could have bought a bloody good second hand pump 🙂 Never mind, If anyone Local to me needs to borrow these they are very welcome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 I am pretty sure the 'other' slot is a variable size as its there to balance the flywheel?? So one is exactly where it needs to be for the timing, the other is to balance the hunk of metal that is flying round at engine rpm's so a thin slot where the woodruff key is at 12 o clock is the correct one for the timing pin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 The wide slot is for the older 4 cylinder diesel engines where the flywheel timing position is in a different place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 15 hours ago, reb78 said: I wouldnt remove the pulley yet. When your DTI arrives, you can check if it needs removing and if it needs taking off, do it then. Is this a 300tdi or 200tdi pump? I dont think you cant lock the 300tdi pumps but the 200 you can Edit - just looked back - its a 300tdi. I dont think you can lock that pump so I dont know how he did it. The 200tdi's have a bolt where you remove a spacer, do the bolt up and it holds the shaft in place. The 300 pump has the hole in to lock the pump up, but it is just capped off. In theory you can lock it still. Never tried it, never locked up a 200 pump either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 In his video, Mike removes a shorter bolt from the pump and uses one from an older pump that has the slotted washer. This is a longer bolt and can lock the shaft. He shows how the timing is correctly set by the DTI and then locks the shaft. He refits the pulley/flange in that position, holds it with the timing pin and then unlocks the shaft. He also shows how to be sure that the pump is on the #1 part of the rotation before doing this, if the front flange has been removed without first marking it and the shaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin50 Posted June 7, 2020 Author Share Posted June 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Peaklander said: In his video, Mike removes a shorter bolt from the pump and uses one from an older pump that has the slotted washer. This is a longer bolt and can lock the shaft. He shows how the timing is correctly set by the DTI and then locks the shaft. He refits the pulley/flange in that position, holds it with the timing pin and then unlocks the shaft. He also shows how to be sure that the pump is on the #1 part of the rotation before doing this, if the front flange has been removed without first marking it and the shaft. Will try all this when my Kit comes, had a go at pulling the front pully off and it bent the bloody puller I had think I need a heavy duty one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin50 Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 Bit of an Update, Fixed Or Not. Right after trying everything mentioned twice or 3 times, no change so left it for my Gauge thingy coming. Britania Mike mentioned loosening the 3 bolts on front of pump take pin out and and try moving either way to see if it made a difference. I thought he meant as mentioned before to get pin In right so thought well Ive done that so not worth trying again. Anyway remembered an old Mate who used to faff about with them and he said the same thing , So gave it a go. Moved it to the Right a little as far as it would go, only a few mil or so , Tightened bolts back up turned the Key and the Bast!!!d started straight up no smoke. Now Question is now Although Flywheel Pin and Marks line up, the Pump Pin does not fit. Do I leave it as it is, or do I Need to make Pin fit as well. ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 I would say leave it as it is now, ensure everything it's tight & correctly locked & close up the timing case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin50 Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, western said: I would say leave it as it is now, ensure everything it's tight & correctly locked & close up the timing case. Thank God for that. So was it a Tooth out ? of something else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 may have been slightly out, but now it runs & no smoke, think you can say that job is finished, just make a note of the current mileage & add 55,000 miles to it then that will be the next belt change, I always do mine at 55,000 mile intevals, though LR say every 60,000 miles. on another note did we complete all the wiring faults ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin50 Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, western said: may have been slightly out, but now it runs & no smoke, think you can say that job is finished, just make a note of the current mileage & add 55,000 miles to it then that will be the next belt change, I always do mine at 55,000 mile intevals, though LR say every 60,000 miles. on another note did we complete all the wiring faults ? Thanks Mate. Think there is one or two wires to sort will get back to them, this Bloody Pump has held me up for a good couple of weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 It's been quite god assisting with info, definitely helps having my own 110 of about the same age sat in my drive, I've a transfer box change in progress, new one should be here tomorrow, then once that's in & working, got to check both inner front driveshafts think the left front innershaft has broke & the diff has near 180 degree excess play in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin50 Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, western said: It's been quite god assisting with info, definitely helps having my own 110 of about the same age sat in my drive, I've a transfer box change in progress, new one should be here tomorrow, then once that's in & working, got to check both inner front driveshafts think the left front innershaft has broke & the diff has near 180 degree excess play in it. You've been a Great help Mate Thank You. Hope you get yours sorted. Another thing I forgot to mention when I finally did get the belt back on, it does not seem to sit right on the right hand side wheel in Pic. not sure if that is Ok But will try and sort it before cover goes back on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Check your engine number as the 300tdi did have some timing belt trouble, there was 2 types of kit to rectify the misalignment , a bit more info here https://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/81753-300tdi-engine-nos-and-cambelt-replacement/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin50 Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 34 minutes ago, western said: Check your engine number as the 300tdi did have some timing belt trouble, there was 2 types of kit to rectify the misalignment , a bit more info here https://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/81753-300tdi-engine-nos-and-cambelt-replacement/ It was on OK when we refitted Pump when it came back as my Mate done it, but I done this one so probably got something to do with me, will get him to check it before outer cover back on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 To the experienced people on here, is the following a correct summary? Kevin has got the engine running smoother by adjusting the pump timing further than the pin allows. To me this suggests that the pump flange/pulley is indeed out of position (slightly) on the shaft. This would be a consequence of removing and refitting during the seal renewal. There’s nothing wrong with leaving things like this as long as it’s not forgotten. It might be worth seeing if a smaller pin (drill) does fit in just to make re-timing a little easier at the next belt change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Or has a tooth out on the pump gear, as he does say it's not sitting right which would seem to indicate a timing problem rather than a pump problem. I'd say back to basics, pull the belt off again and time it from scratch. Get the timing properly set up and then you'll know if its definitely timing or faulty pump repair. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin50 Posted June 9, 2020 Author Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Mo Murphy said: Or has a tooth out on the pump gear, as he does say it's not sitting right which would seem to indicate a timing problem rather than a pump problem. I'd say back to basics, pull the belt off again and time it from scratch. Get the timing properly set up and then you'll know if its definitely timing or faulty pump repair. Mo Already done that earlier Mate. took whole thing apart and started from Scratch, had both pins and marks bang on but still the same, only altered to Running Good when I moved 22 mil nut over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 So is the belt sitting better now than in your photo just a few posts ago? I'm confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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