Disco 1 1997 Tyres rubbing on Radius arm

[Alsace_rangie]

 

I have 2 sets of 235/70 r16 tyres.  One set of )not very rugged) Michelins and a set of Ins Turbo Traction Track.

The Michelins are fine, but the Insas rub the radius arm on full right lock.  Plenty of clearance on the other side (left lock).  The stop bolts seem to be about the same, and nearly fully out on both sides.

Anything else to look at to explain the difference? Anything else to do to limit the lock slightly?  Longer stop-bolts?

I want to get a new set of tyres and can only find 245/70.  Should be fine in most respects but don't want them to rub too much

[Chicken Drumstick]

What rims do you have? The offset of the rim will play a big part in how much room there is between the tyre and radius arm on full lock.

The steering stops may not be 100% the same, as the front suspension uses a panhard rod. So depending on how extended or compressed the suspension is, it will vary the location of the axle. ie as the vehicle moves up and down, the axle will move left and right in relation to the body.

Reducing the steering lock will prevent the tyre hitting the the radius arm, but also potentially increase your turning circle. Deeper offset rims and/or wheel spacers will allow for more lock and no rubbing (or just turn the steering wheel less  ). If you are wanting to get a smaller turning circle.

Re: tyres. Looks like you are in France. Not sure what the market is like there. But I didn't know of any shortage of suitable sizes in the UK. You can probably get away with quite a few options, so long as they are roughly the same diameter, e.g.

 

235/75

205 x 16

245/70

 

[Alsace_rangie]

Rims are the 3 spoke RR type, alloy.  Not sure of the offset value.  Don't really want the expense of a new set of rims!

Can get various tyre sizes, but not in the type of tyre I want, Cooper Discoverer St Maxx.  Seems there is a real shortage of them, and Cooper reckon it will be late summer before the situation gets any better.  225/75 is an option but for some reason that size is way too pricey. 

I realise that I will get a reduce turning circle, but want to reduce obvious rubbing for the CT (=MOT).  But looks like on my vehicle I am already at maximum (or is that minimum?), at least turning right.

[Snagger]

Drumstick is right in that on certain movements of the suspension, the panhard rod will move the axle sideways a little and the radius arms won’t be at perfect 90 degrees to the axle, so that could be a factor.  More likely, though, is that the stop locks are set a tiny bit differently to each other - a small difference on the bolt makes a magnified difference at the tyre shoulder.  A small tweak to wind that stop bolt out a bit to give about an inch clearance on full lock between tyre and radius arm should prevent contact when driving.

[Alsace_rangie]

Thanks.

Had sort of arrived at the "try adjusting them anyway" conclusion!

Will start with a short campaign of using some releasing oil, and then try to loosen the lock nut.

 

[Escape]

Just to add, the Insa's are rethreads and have a pretty agressive thread with large side lugs, so they are probably bigger and certainly wider across the thread than the Michelins. Which is why you need to adjust the stops when running those. You wont really increase the turning circle as you wont keep the steering wheel at full lock when there is rubbing anyway. I'd adjust both sides for about 1cm of clearance with the Insa's and leave it at that. You might want to check and if necessary readjust after getting you new tires, as those will be a bit different again. Especially if you go to 245/70, though not certain they will actually be bigger or wider than the Insa's.

Filip

[Nonimouse]

Disco Vogue three spokes are a-33mm offset, same as disco steels. If you go wider you will be in danger of connecting the rim with the arces on articulation.

The Insa's are a 'big' tyre for the size - just adjust the lock stops a snadge

[Alsace_rangie]

gave the left hand stop-bolt a turn out, and seems to have stopped the rubbing.

Note my question wasn't the fact that there was rubbing , just that both sides looked to have the same stop settings and only one side was rubbing.  If both sides were touching, no issue.

Anyway, where the stop bolt contacts the flange on the axle, there is a bit of wear.  Assume enough to reduce clearance and with the chunkier tyres....

Got some 245/70 R16 on the way.  Not remoulds (actually found some ST Maxx).  So will see where that puts me.  Might put some plastic or rubber caps on the bolt heads to reduce the wear while I'm adjusting everything

[Nonimouse]

Stick a couple of washers in 

[Alsace_rangie]

On 5/20/2021 at 10:10 AM, Nonimouse said:

Stick a couple of washers in 

Where, to do what?

[Nonimouse]

On 5/21/2021 at 3:01 PM, Alsace_rangie said:

Where, to do what?

To push the bolt out so it's tightening on a different place on the threads

[Alsace_rangie]

On 5/24/2021 at 10:25 AM, Nonimouse said:

To push the bolt out so it's tightening on a different place on the threads

If I put the washers between the locknut and the hub, i.e. on the outboard side, it would effectively shorten the max length of the stop bolt, yes?

On the inboard side they would do nothing, except rattle around.

If I did have a problem getting a long enough stop, only way would be to replace with a longer bolt, I think.  

[Snagger]

On 5/18/2021 at 2:01 PM, Alsace_rangie said:

gave the left hand stop-bolt a turn out, and seems to have stopped the rubbing.

Note my question wasn't the fact that there was rubbing , just that both sides looked to have the same stop settings and only one side was rubbing.  If both sides were touching, no issue.

 

As Drumstick and I said, the front radius arms and axle don’t always from a rectangle - they form a parallelogram, so whenever the axle is moved laterally off centre, the radius arms will remain parallel to each other but not parallel to the chassis.  This moves the back edges of the tryres closer to one radius arm and further from the other.  This will be a permanent issue if you have raised suspension without an extended panhard rod, but is also a transient issue with axle articulation on uneven surfaces.

[Nonimouse]

16 hours ago, Alsace_rangie said:

If I put the washers between the locknut and the hub, i.e. on the outboard side, it would effectively shorten the max length of the stop bolt, yes?

On the inboard side they would do nothing, except rattle around.

If I did have a problem getting a long enough stop, only way would be to replace with a longer bolt, I think.  

It does depend on how long the bolt is out , but packing it with washers can help - or a peice of tube

[Alsace_rangie]

2 hours ago, Snagger said:

As Drumstick and I said, the front radius arms and axle don’t always from a rectangle - they form a parallelogram, so whenever the axle is moved laterally off centre, the radius arms will remain parallel to each other but not parallel to the chassis.  This moves the back edges of the tryres closer to one radius arm and further from the other.  This will be a permanent issue if you have raised suspension without an extended panhard rod, but is also a transient issue with axle articulation on uneven surfaces.

Yep, got this.  My confusion was that this is a non-modified setup on level ground with no load.  But what I hadn't appreciated (and pointed out by you) is that a very small adjustment of the stop makes a big difference.  In my case 2 things caused the rubbing.  One was chunkier tyres.  The other being wear on the axle where the stop bolt makes contact so the left wheel could turn just that bit more.  As you say, a mm  makes a big difference.  So sorted for me, and i may put some rubber/plastic caps on the bolts to prevent the wear on the axle with the required re-setup of the stop-bolt (shorten it).

 

[Snagger]

Glad you found it.

Series LRs have steel tabs secured to the swivel housing flange by the bolts that hold the swivel balls to the axle tube.  The tabs protrude for the stop bolt heads to press against.  Maybe you could fabricate something like that if you run out of adjustment.

[missingsid]

IIRC RRC had a similar stop tab but as coiler swivle ball to axle bolts are clocked by 90 deg compared to Series ones the tab goes across two bolts.

 

Nope must be wrong again as I can't find it.

Sorry

 

Ah ha not mad but wrong vehicle, Defender has them.

TAU100170 - STEERING SWIVEL HOUSING LOCK STOP BRACKET - DEFENDER