Immobiliser required for pre-Defender LR

[mickeyw]

This topic affects a broad range of older vehicles that weren't built with much electrickery, hence my decision to post in the International forum.

My 1986 110's insurance renewal just arrived, and in reading the endorsements small print I spotted the following: 

"Immobiliser must be fitted for Theft cover to apply. We will not provide any cover under Section 2 of the policy (ie. any claim for loss or damage by Theft or attempted Theft of the Insured Car) unless we have proof that: it is fitted with an Insurance approved immobiliser or immobiliser alarm fitted by the manufacturers or insurance approved installer and the immobiliser or immobiliser alarm is on and working whenever the Insured Car is left."

Now when I took out this policy  a year ago I told them I had no immobiliser fitted, at least not the type they require here, and they were happy with that. Now things have changed. I have other home brew implementations to slow down would-be thieves but they don't count and neither does having Lucas electrics . IMO the type of system they are requesting (Thatcham 2) would be pretty easy to bypass on most classic cars and therefore wouldn't provide me with much reassurance. 

So in the interest of box-ticking I thought I should try and find a solution. Can anyone suggest a system and/or installer, yes this has to be fitted by an approved installer and a "certificate" provided, in the South-East of an immobiliser suitable for classic cars that are blessed with not having CANBUS systems and other complexities?

If I was an installer and was asked to fit a system to an old and non-standard car such as my 110 with V8 with 14CUX and Megajolt I would likely be very unenthusiastic. Of course as the owner I would be perfectly confident in carrying out such an installation, but that isn't good enough for the insurer. I don't fancy going to somewhere like Road Radio as they would throw a bag of those hateful Scotchlocks at it, and we know what happens with those after a while 🙄. Ideally I need someone that would work with me guiding them through the truck's systems, big ask perhaps.

I could look round for other insurers, but I expect most will be wanting similar provisions from the owner.

Anyone care to offer helpful insights?

[pete3000]

https://www.toadalarm.com/product/sterling-touch-immobiliser/

They used to be defacto standard, not sure how they rate these days, but should fit the bill. i.e cat 2 approved, free mobile fitting in uk. The only thing not mentioned is price

[smallfry]

Are you confident with your present arrangements that it would be difficult to drive away, it the vehicle is not at home ?

If so, try some other insurers, except Adrian Flux.

[jeremy996]

Who is your present insurer? What they are asking for is dumb and they are effectively refusing to cover you for theft, even if your LR was taken on a beavertail, where an immobilser would be useless anyway.

Although a Toad alarm/immobiliser would probably fit the bill, an alternative insurer would probably be cheaper and more amenable. IMHO a tracker would be more use, so ask for a Heritage quote, (if they still have their tracker deal).

Would a classic policy fit the bill? My Morgan is agreed value, unlimited mileage and business use.

[simonr]

I had the same issue, years ago, on my 90 with Megasquirt.  The insurance asked for a Cat [something] alarm & immobiliser.

My solution was to add a pair of wires (nicely) into the loom which immobilised via Megasquirt.  I took it to RoadRadio as it happens - and showed them the wires which were to be used to disable the ECU.  They were happy enough to connect to them (and wrap it all in nasty insulating tape).  The Insurance were happy - and I was happy once the Insulating tape had magically transformed int self-amalgamating tape.

[Snagger]

I had a Microscan immobiliser that used a key ring fob and an induction loop around the ignition key barrel to control micro relays between the ign switch and the starter relay and the ign switch and fuel pump solenoid (or ign coil on a petrol).  Simple and effective, Thatcham approved and, sadly, easily bypassed by anyone who knows these older vehicles.  Such immobilisers on old vehicles are only any use for insurance purposes, not for defeating thieves.  To stop the vehicle disappearing, you need things like hidden fuel solenoids, sturdy control locks or other more “inventive” schemes.

[mickeyw]

Thanks for the input everyone.

On 8/4/2023 at 4:31 PM, pete3000 said:

https://www.toadalarm.com/product/sterling-touch-immobiliser/

They used to be defacto standard, not sure how they rate these days, but should fit the bill. i.e cat 2 approved, free mobile fitting in uk. The only thing not mentioned is price

I've found a number of places that sell the Sterling systems. What I don't like about them is the need to touch or wave the transponder in the required area before each engine start. I've driven cars like this before, and in off roading situation this is a royal PITA as engine stops and starts are frequent.

 

On 8/4/2023 at 8:56 PM, smallfry said:

Are you confident with your present arrangements that it would be difficult to drive away, it the vehicle is not at home ?

I'd never be that confident; we can always add more layers but I believe my methods are already more effective that what the insurers are requesting. However adding another layer is no bad thing, but I'd prefer an one that doesn't overly hinder everyday use.

 

On 8/4/2023 at 9:27 PM, jeremy996 said:

Who is your present insurer? What they are asking for is dumb and they are effectively refusing to cover you for theft, even if your LR was taken on a beavertail, where an immobilser would be useless anyway.

Although a Toad alarm/immobiliser would probably fit the bill, an alternative insurer would probably be cheaper and more amenable. IMHO a tracker would be more use, so ask for a Heritage quote, (if they still have their tracker deal).

Would a classic policy fit the bill? My Morgan is agreed value, unlimited mileage and business use.

My 110 is 'mildly modified' (bigger engine, bigger wheels, winch, Megajolt), which counts out a number of insurers, but is annoyingly not sufficiently modified for other companies that specialise in modified vehicles.
I 'm currently with Greenlight (a broker), who I think someone on here recommended, and they've been easy to deal with and very accommodating to my needs, but now their underwriters have updated their requirements. For the prior 20+ years I've been with NFU, but last year they doubled the renewal price and weren't able to explain their reasons satisfactorily.
I'm already on a 3k miles/year limit, don't need commercial use, just me and SWMBO covered. Heritage were mega expensive when I looked last year. Classic policies don't seem to cater well for modified trucks and don't tend to offer green-laning cover, despite a lane being a public highway 🤷‍♂️

 

On 8/5/2023 at 9:34 AM, simonr said:

I had the same issue, years ago, on my 90 with Megasquirt.  The insurance asked for a Cat [something] alarm & immobiliser.

My solution was to add a pair of wires (nicely) into the loom which immobilised via Megasquirt.  I took it to RoadRadio as it happens - and showed them the wires which were to be used to disable the ECU.  They were happy enough to connect to them (and wrap it all in nasty insulating tape).  The Insurance were happy - and I was happy once the Insulating tape had magically transformed int self-amalgamating tape.

Thanks Simon, this is probably the most sensible and practical approach. RR seem to just offer systems for modern cars now, so looking at products for the classic car world. Many of the popular systems from the 80's and 90's are NLA.

 

On 8/5/2023 at 2:59 PM, Snagger said:

I had a Microscan immobiliser that used a key ring fob and an induction loop around the ignition key barrel to control micro relays between the ign switch and the starter relay and the ign switch and fuel pump solenoid (or ign coil on a petrol).  Simple and effective, Thatcham approved and, sadly, easily bypassed by anyone who knows these older vehicles.  Such immobilisers on old vehicles are only any use for insurance purposes, not for defeating thieves.  To stop the vehicle disappearing, you need things like hidden fuel solenoids, sturdy control locks or other more “inventive” schemes.

Agree with all of this Nick.
A system with a loop that recognises a chip on or close to the key all the time it's close is preferable in function. It is after all how most later vehicles are.