tuko Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 @FridgeFreezer Yes, the image is the iBooster ( first gen) from a Tesla x. Todd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuko Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 The other option that was discussed earlier still has my interest to which I've read more about. The mechanical vacuum pump delete replacing it with an electric vacuum pump. The favorite replacement unit seems to be the UP28 but I have read the UP30 and the UP5.0 are better pumps from Bosch. The above image is the UP5.0 from a Dodge Ram. With an adjustable vacuum pressure switch and an one way valve, this is another viable option with the present booster. All are interesting and viable options that I may consider in the future for the Defender after I've converted the front brakes to ventilated discs. Todd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 There's also the hydroboost units that use PAS pressure, as fitted to some jags I think... in fact I think I've got one in the garage that Jez bought to mess around with and never used, yours for a donation to forum funds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuko Posted February 29 Author Share Posted February 29 @FridgeFreezer Thanks for the offer but for the time being I'm going to limit me to the options that I have been researching locally, as a matter of fact I have already ordered the UP5.0 vacuum pump from the Dodge Ram. Todd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigi_H Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 The el. brake booster seems to be pretty interesting as a clutch booster (operated by hand at the gear shift leaver) as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Lof are shortly going to be selling a converter to use the Defender abs double diaphragm servo unit on a non abs car. https://lofclutches.com/shop/brakes/brake-kits/coming-soon-lof-powerboost-servo-kit-for-non-abs-defender/ I'm trying lof pads on the back at the moment and although the fronts (genuine and seemingly last forever) do most of the work, I was quite surprised at the improvement in braking over the previous mintex pads. Mo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuko Posted May 8 Author Share Posted May 8 Getting back to this old thread to report the process to this point. A few weeks ago I got the Defender out of winter storage and the immediate day afterwards I had the front axle off and the replacement unit in place. The replacement axle is another 110 axle but with a GL weld on diff pan and Nige's axle truss kit. The main reason for the changed axle is because it has the mounts for a anti roll bar, something that is being added at the same time with the brakes. On to the brakes, nearly everything replaced on the front to accommodate the conversion to ventilated discs plus I went with EBC green stuff pads as recommended from so many here. Bleeding process took some time as there was an air lock to the rear. Eventually we got the air out, and we had a firm pedal. But this is where I ran into another issue, with no power assist the pedal was firm as a rock but once you started the Defender the pedal faded to the floor. On its test drive in town, the Defender was outright dangerous to drive with the pedal going to the floor continuously. This had me scratching my head for a bit, with me only thinking that the replacement double diaphragm booster from the Disco 1 that I bought "used" was not as it should be. So, I removed it and put the original pancake booster back in. NOW we are talking! Finally I have the brakes that I have been looking for, firm pedal and the Defender giving me the confidence that I have brakes. With the camping gear in the Defender and it weighing more than stock, the brakes take immediately and scubs off the speed quickly, far better than this Defender performed with its original disc/drum setup. Now I'm finally happy with the brakes on the Defender, with nearly everything replaced it should last for some time but I still would like a double diaphragm booster in the future, not a used unit though. Todd. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little mule Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 Hi all and Todd thats nice work there my friend . Let me ask you a question about your set up. i tried this set up on my D1 with defender 110 front calipers and disco 1 master cylinder with D1 rear calipers. The brakes worked very well except I felt like I was driving a series where you had to pump the brake peddle twice to get a good peddle . what I found out was the D1 master cylinder did not have enough fluid column being pushed to the calipers. the brake peddle would bottom out and it took a second pump to get a good hard peddle that would stop the truck . what I found out was the D1 master cylinder could not push enough fluid to get the brakes to work properly. I replaced the master cylinder with a TRW defender master cylinder they worked very well even when in low range off roading . i used to have to put the trucks tranny into neutral in order to get the truck to stop . The truck would just push through any amount of brake peddle I could push.and have the engine power push the truck forward if it was I drive . the proper defender master cylinder was able to push enough fluid to all the calipers to stop the truck off-roading . the bigger master has a much bigger reservoir and pushes the proper amount of fluid thus helping with stoping the truck. on my last series I used Toyota FJ 40 axles with front disc and rear drum brakes. the master was a GM K series 1ton version. I only did two things to get it to work perfect 1. I had to oval the mounting holes on the master cylinder 2. I had to lengthen the push rod out further so it had the 1/16 inch clearance between the push rod and the back of the master cylinder piston. other than that they worked very well. on another note you would not know where I can find the spacers and rubbers that go between the two halves of the front caliper . I have a few calipers for my classic I need to rebuild and need there spacers.The spacer and a rubber to allow the fluid to flow from one half to the other half of each caliper ? Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 11 hours ago, Little mule said: Hi all and Todd thats nice work there my friend . Let me ask you a question about your set up. i tried this set up on my D1 with defender 110 front calipers and disco 1 master cylinder with D1 rear calipers. The brakes worked very well except I felt like I was driving a series where you had to pump the brake peddle twice to get a good peddle . what I found out was the D1 master cylinder did not have enough fluid column being pushed to the calipers. the brake peddle would bottom out and it took a second pump to get a good hard peddle that would stop the truck . what I found out was the D1 master cylinder could not push enough fluid to get the brakes to work properly. I replaced the master cylinder with a TRW defender master cylinder they worked very well even when in low range off roading . i used to have to put the trucks tranny into neutral in order to get the truck to stop . The truck would just push through any amount of brake peddle I could push.and have the engine power push the truck forward if it was I drive . the proper defender master cylinder was able to push enough fluid to all the calipers to stop the truck off-roading . the bigger master has a much bigger reservoir and pushes the proper amount of fluid thus helping with stoping the truck. on my last series I used Toyota FJ 40 axles with front disc and rear drum brakes. the master was a GM K series 1ton version. I only did two things to get it to work perfect 1. I had to oval the mounting holes on the master cylinder 2. I had to lengthen the push rod out further so it had the 1/16 inch clearance between the push rod and the back of the master cylinder piston. other than that they worked very well. on another note you would not know where I can find the spacers and rubbers that go between the two halves of the front caliper . I have a few calipers for my classic I need to rebuild and need there spacers.The spacer and a rubber to allow the fluid to flow from one half to the other half of each caliper ? Tony I’m not surprised you had to pump the pedal (noun - peddle is a verb 😉) using a Discovery master and 110 callipers - the 110 callipers are significantly larger than 90/RR/D1, as are the discs. Matching the hydraulic components is critical to safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuko Posted May 10 Author Share Posted May 10 The entire brake hydraulic system has been renewed for like items ( Defender) with only the brake booster coming from a Disco 1. I have had success with the Disco 1 booster on the series hybrid which has Defender axles/ brake components therefore the attempt to use the same booster on the Defender. At this point I cannot say that it does not work because it appears more than likely that it is defective rather than not being up to the task. Also LR later in the life of the Defender did change from the single diaphragm booster to the dual diaphragm, so knowing that I will want to "upgrade" to the later booster. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little mule Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 My mistake must have been me thinking the disco1 master would would be able to push the same amount as the old 110 master I changed it back to the three port disco1 and put a T junction on the back brakes and calling it good . the new system will be a proper 110 master and a RRC booster because the 110 will bolt directly to the booster 🤞. The booster on the RRC two door is huge . ADVISE. Would it be worth it to put the electric vacuum pump on a 300 Tdi ? the engine I’m building now a 300 had a cracked cam shaft when I took it out . It was cracked on the vacuum pump lobe. I ordered a new one and all the followers . Do you think the engine would run a little quieter with out the vacuum pump banging off the cam? would the electric vacuum pump last as long as a factory 300 pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 I suspect you could reduce some of the ticking by removing the vacuum pump, and you certainly would eliminate a known oil leak spot - the end covers tend to leak after a while as the rivets stretch. An electric vacuum pump may be a bit better. I doubt it’d make the brakes feel significantly sharper, though, and you might need to add a vacuum bottle - I recall a BritRest video on the subject, and he found the electric vacuum pump by itself was too slow to reset the servo after a brake application. I suppose it all depends on the spec of the pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigi_H Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 (edited) German forum about an electrical vac pump. Seems to be very successful https://www.landyfriends.net/foren/index.php?thread/13713-umbau-auf-elektrische-vakuumpumpe/&postID=221951&highlight=elektrische%2Bpumpe#post221951 Edited May 11 by Sigi_H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuko Posted May 11 Author Share Posted May 11 20 hours ago, Little mule said: My mistake must have been me thinking the disco1 master would would be able to push the same amount as the old 110 master I changed it back to the three port disco1 and put a T junction on the back brakes and calling it good . the new system will be a proper 110 master and a RRC booster because the 110 will bolt directly to the booster 🤞. The booster on the RRC two door is huge . ADVISE. Would it be worth it to put the electric vacuum pump on a 300 Tdi ? the engine I’m building now a 300 had a cracked cam shaft when I took it out . It was cracked on the vacuum pump lobe. I ordered a new one and all the followers . Do you think the engine would run a little quieter with out the vacuum pump banging off the cam? would the electric vacuum pump last as long as a factory 300 pump? Tony, I agree with snagger when it comes to an electric vacuum pump, the benefits are there for that upgrade if you have the issues he wrote. A friend's 110 goes through vacuum pumps like they are going out of style for some strange reason and his plan is to change over soon. Myself as I wrote earlier have already bought an electric vacuum pump from a dodge ram. (UP5.0) From what I've been reading so far is that many people are not happy on the idea of the electric vacuum pump conversion mostly due to them buying a pump that is not suitable for the job. ie: hella UP28 In your case Tony, dodges are dime a dozen, I'd be at the wreckers getting the parts to make the conversion work. Sigi's link is good with quality parts for the vacuum system. But I think you could get away with all dodge parts, that is my thought and plan on my defender later down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little mule Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 Thanks for all the advise everyone . i have to go to the junk yard today for some EEP parts lol. here are a cpl of pictures of the vacuum booster I have . aparently my booster is from the 70/80,s. 2 door only which I have . they must have used all the early series 1 RRC parts till they ran out . my. Truck was also imported from France so that could some bearing on it as well. the rebuild kit is a really good price . The hard part will be to find one but I’ll do a vacuum test before I go buying lol. I think this mean I might be able to install the electric vacuum motor instead of hearing the 300 beating the vacuum pump to death . It should be a little quieter as well .i can make a blanking plate for,the factor vacuum pump and just install the electric. kevin my old army buddy can help me find one no problem and I’ll get a good price seeings how there are found old D1,s I sent out his way lol here are some pics. The cam shaft is a real mess and glad it’s being replaced with a new gen one . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little mule Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 Here is a pic of the vacuum pump on the 300 I’m working on . The vacuum pump lobe looks like it’s ready to break is also chipped . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little mule Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 Sorry for all the extra piston pictures lol I’m still on my first cup of gogo juice lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 My 300 is in my 95 RRC, which has power brakes rather than servo assisted. All that the vac pump does is operate a non-essential EGR solenoid. I am considering removing it, from EGR valve through to the vac pump itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little mule Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 Again sorry everyone for all the extra pictures of brake pistons I was still on my first cup and trying to figure out this IPad. my truck is a 1990 from france and did not come with power brakes only vacuum type. My truck also came with a VM 2.5 so it had its own separate vacuum pump . The power brake option came to Canada ONLY on the five door with a V8 auto . The only two door RRC came with the vacuum system and they stopped importing them I think in the early 80,s because of emissions . I have a P38 here I can swap over the power braking system but I think the hassles is too great and I would have to do the whole ABS thing which is also a pain . Simple is best . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little mule Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 You can is the cam picture how much the vacuum pump beats on the cam shaft when it’s running . I did hear of early 300,s having cam shaft breakage under warranty. i also wonder how much quieter the engine would be if the vacuum pump was replaced with a electric unit and have a blanking plate made to cover the hole where the mechanical pump was installed . I checked with my local junk yard and my buddy can get me a BMW one for $100.00 with all the switches and hoses but I have to remove it . I would rather do it myself that way I know I will get everything and have no hacking and slashing of wires and hoses . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 1 hour ago, Little mule said: You can is the cam picture how much the vacuum pump beats on the cam shaft when it’s running . I did hear of early 300,s having cam shaft breakage under warranty. Conversely the 300 has been around for a long time now, there's thousands of them running round and being abused off-road, and it's not a common failure or known weak point. Or to put it another way - I think you're talking yourself into fixing something that isn't a problem - and I doubt it's going to make a 300TDi appreciably quieter. It's been said already but the stock system with the vac booster stops very well with good pedal feel if it's all working right, and that was fitted to huge numbers of vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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