Lewis Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Do any of you have an 8274 (or 8074) where the circlip is prone to popping out? Can you reliably repeat the failure?If so, would you like to try out an idea fo me? I'll make it, you try it and keep it if it works? PM me if you want to join in? Si Si, I'm willing to participate as one of mine is halfway gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 How about just crossdrilling the shaft and fitting a roll pin? Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 if somones got a spare I can blag for a couple or three weeks I could price up having a batch of modded ones made, I know a nice man... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Will, What about something like this: Or this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 if somones got a spare I can blag for a couple or three weeks I could price up having a batch of modded ones made, I know a nice man... I have a spare 8274 shaft, can bring it next weekend? Sorry, still no news on the tranny - my enquires are ongoing . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Jez - why not price up having a batch of complete 8074's made up, got to be a market for 'em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 the guys that cast the volvo stub arms for us also cast alloy - they cut gears and splines to even more handy as the the fellas opposite them are heat treaters.. is theres enough interest? does the 80 outpunch the 82 sufficiently enough in terms of durability to cast a load of bodies? any design changes that are worth implementing to improve it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D9OSV Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Intresting thread.......... I am bemused as to why anyone would want to use a cross drilled pin? A circlip is a reasonable solution as it spreads the load nicely? The best option if a new shaft is not available ie: in the case of the 8074. Would be to use the Gywn Lewis approach of three bolts drilled in to the outer brake discs stopping the circlip from flexing. I think that the load on the brake is far to great to be able to use a push fit stud drilled into the end of the shaft. Also if there was 10 geniune enquiries from 8074 owners i'm sure we could manufacture a batch of shafts to the same high spec already found for the 8274. Just do not forget that the shaft just does not deal with one problem but five, and the circlip issue was seen as a lesser issue when these shafts were first designed Food for thought. Intresting seeing other solutions evolve. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 the guys that cast the volvo stub arms for us also cast alloy - they cut gears and splines to even more handy as the the fellas opposite them are heat treaters.. is theres enough interest?does the 80 outpunch the 82 sufficiently enough in terms of durability to cast a load of bodies? any design changes that are worth implementing to improve it? Speak to Dan - he knows the most about 8074's (his ego will love that statement ) The 80 has wider gears, and roller bearings on all of the shafts - it could be improved by having a wider narrower dia drum running on roller bearings rather tha bushes. Also the freespool could be improved - it has a tendency to pop out under load, although not as bad as the 8274 The 80 is faster than the 82 but I dont know whether this is a product of gearing or because of the bearings A lot of people would appreciate the fitment of a second motor The ability to fit a disc brake or more positive brake to the winch would be nice, but still retaining the automatic stopping that the ratchet brake has. Oddly enough I have a spare(ish) 80 that you could borrwow depending on timescale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Also if there was 10 geniune enquiries from 8074 owners i'm sure we could manufacture a batch of shafts to the same high spec already found for the 8274.Just do not forget that the shaft just does not deal with one problem but five, and the circlip issue was seen as a lesser issue when these shafts were first designed The 80 shaft doesnt suffer from the same issues as the 82 shaft though, so the circlip issue is the ONLY issue Regarding the crossdrilled pin - it works fine, once the rest of the brake has been bored to suit I think that the load on the brake is far to great to be able to use a push fit stud drilled into the end of the shaft. I couldnt agree more with you there, the brake on an 82 will eat a 6mm split pin under no-load Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 The ability to fit a disc brake or more positive brake to the winch would be nice, but still retaining the automatic stopping that the ratchet brake has.Oddly enough I have a spare(ish) 80 that you could borrwow depending on timescale that could be cool - can you bring it to KORC at the weekend? we designed a wierd brake for a leccy winch, might be fun to use it, nothing to wear out and no over-run can you tell Gingermonkey to bring some vodka? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 that could be cool - can you bring it to KORC at the weekend? we designed a wierd brake for a leccy winch, might be fun to use it, nothing to wear out and no over-run can you tell Gingermonkey to bring some vodka? I need the winch back for the end of september - does that work for you? I'll tell him, but we've also got 2 x gallon of moonshine to get through, you dig? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Speak to Dan - he knows the most about 8074's (his ego will love that statement ) Sorry to break up the thread but............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Dosn't show much, but here's mine a la gwynn lewis... it's a bit buried into the grille, so isn't particularly clear, but the shafts of the screws are against the edge of the circlip stopping it moving out, and obvioulsy the heads stop it moving along the shaft. Has taken some real stick like this, whereas before it would spit the circlip on a regular basis... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I need the winch back for the end of september - does that work for you?I'll tell him, but we've also got 2 x gallon of moonshine to get through, you dig? just need it long enough to get it on the ITP and digitise it, 2 gallons........? I best bring some emergency rations.. has Dan got out of bed yet? its almost the crack of midday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 just need it long enough to get it on the ITP and digitise it, 2 gallons........? I best bring some emergency rations.. has Dan got out of bed yet? its almost the crack of midday! I've been up for ages, welding upside down mainly I'm not sure the 80's need much in the way of improvement, as they suffer with almost none of the issues the 82's do. Even the reprofiled brake cam on jims is the same as the 80's I think the only improvement that need making are a fully roller bearing'd drum and improved brake retention, both of which cane retro fitted to the original without any real hastle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I've been up for ages, welding upside down mainly it wasnt real - it was all a dream Bobby.. what about fixing points? more/less/in different places? rollers or balls for the mains? what else? might all be pie in the sky but costing up is free and it'll give me something to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I think the freespool on my 80 needs some imporvement myself - Disengaging the gear train is no problem and works really well, but you also need to hold the pawl off the brake ratchet to get it to spool properly. Having modified my freespool lever, I am trying to come up with a way of being able to disengage the brake pawl that also then re-engages when you re-engage the geartrain - ie so that the whole thing works off the freespool lever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I think the freespool on my 80 needs some imporvement myself - Disengaging the gear train is no problem and works really well, but you also need to hold the pawl off the brake ratchet to get it to spool properly. Having modified my freespool lever, I am trying to come up with a way of being able to disengage the brake pawl that also then re-engages when you re-engage the geartrain - ie so that the whole thing works off the freespool lever... I have a nice easy freespool idea! Particularly if you are widening the drum anyway! Essentially to cut the drive spline off the end of the drum and weld that on to a piece of tube/bar which passes through the middle of the centre of the drum. That remotes any mechanism to the other end of the drum where there are no seals to worry about as well as loads of space. I think Northern Chris (or it may have been Jez?) said they could get dogs that are used to engage / disengage bits in gearboxes which could be adapted to transfer the drive from the inner to the outer co-axial shaft. Worst case, you could just use a pin inserted through a hole to lock it up. Someone above said that the forces on an 8274 brake were too great for a pin, or for a stud glued in to the end of the shaft. I think they were mis-understanding the proposal. If you leave the original circlip in place and make a collar which surrounds the circlip. The only way the clip can escape from the groove is by expanding - this it will be held in place by the collar. All the force is trying to expand the collar (so to speak!) and there is practically none trying to push the collar away from the drum - hence I reckon it could be held in place with nothing more than a magnet! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I think a pin will struggle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I think a pin will struggle Not so sure! Say you used an 8.8 grade M16 bolt. It's in double-shear which gives a shear load of something in the region of 10 ton. Even with lots of wraps on the drum, that would still require 5 ton loading on the line before it gives. A 'proper' dog would be a better idea though. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Daans winch has a nice big chunky dog on it - failing that Quaiffe and a fair few others do one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Grind yourself up a tool then set the screw cutting gearbox for the correct pitch for the thread you want to create then set the tooling up.You may have to do a few passes to get the correct thread depth, especially in hard material, it's also important to keep an eye on tool deflection as you get deeper into the hole as it is very easy to turn a tapered thread as the tool is pushed away by the material. Also if you have a totally free choice on thread why go for such a course and relatively poor thread form as m8 x 1.25? 5/16 unf would be much more suited to this (and just about every other) application. Cutting any screw thread on a standard lathe (including the majority of CNC's) requires more than a few passes, especially when not using full form cutting tips (as any home ground cutter will not be), the compound angle is set to compensate for this, it tapers the cutting tool into the thread slowly to avoid cutting at full depth (very few people are skilled enough to make a true thread form HSS tool by hand, it is near impossible without specialist equipment). Why do you consider metric being a poor thread form when compared to unified? The only poor choice is the pitch in this instance. They are both 60° with very similar depths and pitches, the choice should be M8 fine which is 1mm pitch against the standard metric M8 pitch of 1.25mm. In fact, IIRC they are the only thread whose true form should have flat crests, creating even more similarity, which is never done in mass production, including taps! Metric Coarse to Metric Fine is what Unified Coarse is to Unified Fine! Usually cheaper and easier to get hold of metric fine tools and bolts. Lewis has one that is in the process of spitting its circlip out.I too had an idea regarding an alternative method of holding the brake on. It involved boring a hole in the center of a 50x50x20mm block of steel with a "lip" at one end to sit in the circlip grove, then band saw it in half leaving you with two pieces 50x25x20 each with a semi circular rebate with a lip at one end one half would then be drilled clearance then the other would be tapped. The two halfs could then be bolted together over the end of the brake shaft preventing the escape of the brake assy. Else make two sets much more easily, by machining two ½'s together one set with a lip, one set with a thread, then match opposite ½'s, voila, two sets much easier, using say 50 x 20 BDMS cut to 50mm long clamped together in a 4 jaw chuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 nice bit of green oak and wood glue Rog - think of your carbon footprint! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 nice bit of green oak and wood glue Rog - think of your carbon footprint! B*ll*x to carbon footprint. I truely love the sticker on a Rangie I once saw "making your summers warmer since 1970!" Untill the goverment bring back Russell Hobbs kettles with replacable elements, insist on all pc cases being re-used, etc etc etc my carbon footprint going to stay as real as my true footprint - Size 14 good enough! The good ol houswife throwing away her 4 pint of milk container makes her feel good, but what a load of carp. I hate this recycling and carbon nonsense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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