Map Display PC

[David Sparkes]

I've decided that I really want a Convertible PC, one that can be a conventional Laptop, or a Tablet (with Touchscreen).

It does have to be second hand, from a price point of view, but something designed for Windows 98 or 2000 is older than I'm comfortable with. I'd expect Windows XP Tablet edition, and I want at least a 12" screen, rather than a 10.4".

What sources of supply would people recommend?

I've been looking at Ebay, and the supplier ASMdirect has many items available, sometimes Buy it Now, sometimes for auction.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/2w3vhs is a recent auction example.

I'm beginning to think I don't want to give him business.

Adding VAT to a bid puts me off, as I regard it as misleading (I thought quoting Non-VAT prices for Retail items wasn't allowed any more, or is that just in magazines?).

It's bad enough having to add the variable postage to the bid amount, but VAT as well just makes that aspect worse.

In addition, with that particular advert, the case is damaged 'near the lid lock'. He has included a picture, but it's too dark to see the detail, so I 'Asked the Seller a Question' to find out if the lid latch actually worked.

No Reply, so I asked again, politely.

No Reply, so I assumed it didn't work, he just didn't want to admit the damage was more than cosmetic.

I adjusted my bidding appropriately, and never got above reserve.

It may have been worth the £199 achieved (that's £262 total), but I asked myself, Do I really want to reward a Dealer using these tactics with business? (Doesn't quote close to the paying price, and doesn't reply to enquiries).

The answer is no, even though the simple route is to buy one of his Buy It Now options at £259 bid (£333.70 Total).

http://preview.tinyurl.com/36a8f7

So, anyone upgrading, or can recommend a favourite supplier?

Thanks.

[pugwash]

considering most of the laptops bought and sold in the world are for business purposes it seems sensible to sell an item ex vat and then add that back on- it makes it a huge amount easier for business purchases.

looking at the seller he clearly sells a huge amount of stock, and if you asked a question close to the closing time then he probably hasn't had time to reply.

Think you're being pretty silly about the variable postage too- i had it when sellers charge a flat fee if an item is lighter or cheaper than another then i expect to pay less for the postage- that's common sense isn't it?

for £260 i don't think you could have gone wrong to be honest!

[rtbarton]

Retail prices should be quote inclusive of VAT. Business prices should clearly state "+VAT" (and the rate) if applicable. Where a catalogue could be used by both trade and retail then inclusive prices should be quoted, and optionally exclusive prices.

I asked HMRC about this and they didn't know! but Trading Standards put me right.

[imspanners]

I bought one of these from this guy: fujitsu on ebay

Only payed £112+del+vat but it works great MM is nice and clear too. B)

Really thin and light, ideal for a pc mount in the motor.....

He had quite a few, but they seem to have dried up, or he's flooded the market and wants to keep the price up by reducing the quantity for sale.

[David Sparkes]

Well that didn't pan out quite as I expected, but no matter.

Pugwash,

I think it's probably good for the soul to occasionally be told I'm silly.

No, I do.

Really.

:-)

I did make a mistake refering to variable postage. What I was trying to get across was 'always' having to check the possibility of excessive postage, where the seller is obviously trying to ensure he gets his money, whatever the Auction price. £25.00 for a laptop? Marginally high, but just acceptable, in my book.

"most of the laptops bought and sold in the world are for business purposes"

Really? Off Ebay? (Which is this context). You make a slightly contentious statement I feel, but as neither of us have quoted any supporting evidence I think we will just have to accept different opinions exist.

"if you asked a question close to the closing time"

Ok, I didn't detail the times in my post, but for clarity, questions were copied by Ebay to my Mail Inbox at:

Wednesday 17th, 13.46

Thursday 18th, 12.55

Both during the working day, with about 24 hours between them, but also allowing evening access, if it's a second income stream.

Auction ends Thursday 18th 21.00.

I think he had enough time to respond, especially given that he has a sizable Ebay operation.

"for £260 i don't think you could have gone wrong to be honest!"

OK, I'll accept that as a viable comment. You may be right.

The £333.70 may also be acceptable, as it includes a freestanding Toshiba DVD player / CDRW as well.

I don't want to 'cut off my nose to spite my face', but I'm not to keen on being taken for granted as a mug, who can be easily suckered in to bid a low but incorrect price.

I didn't intend the post on this forum to be read as an 'anti-asmdirect' moan, but I suppose it says a lot that it came across as a whinge.

rtbarton,

Thankyou for the research.

"Where a catalogue could be used by both trade and retail then inclusive prices should be quoted, and optionally exclusive prices.".

I don't think the Ebay adverts of the 'Add VAT' school conform to that.

Interesting to see that the probable seller to imspanners practises the same distortion.

I suspect http://preview.tinyurl.com/2j8jxy is a valid current link to the same or a similar seller.

I've just fitted a 10.4" screen to the built-in car computer, and while it's an awful lot better that the 8" it replaced, for a social PC I'd rather like a larger screen.

Thanks to you all.

[smo]

I've recently purchased a second hand toughbook CF-18, one of the last ones made as its now CF-19, excellent touchscreen loads of power and totally bomb proof

[TJ101]

Retail prices should be quote inclusive of VAT. Business prices should clearly state "+VAT" (and the rate) if applicable. Where a catalogue could be used by both trade and retail then inclusive prices should be quoted, and optionally exclusive prices.

I asked HMRC about this and they didn't know! but Trading Standards put me right.

Sorry but OT a bit !!!

re Adverts quoting a price but failing to mention VAT !!

Ask White90, how many 110 Defenders he found, without any vat mentioned, only to find 17.5 % to be added, and that main dealers Its widespread !!!

[smo]

Sorry but OT a bit !!!

re Adverts quoting a price but failing to mention VAT !!

Ask White90, how many 110 Defenders he found, without any vat mentioned, only to find 17.5 % to be added, and that main dealers Its widespread !!!

With commercial vehicles its commonplace tho, laptops and stuff is less so.

[Guest WALFY]

Sorry but OT a bit !!!

re Adverts quoting a price but failing to mention VAT !!

Ask White90, how many 110 Defenders he found, without any vat mentioned, only to find 17.5 % to be added, and that main dealers Its widespread !!!

That'll teach him to buy a barge. Used commercially for humping coal around for northerners :D

[Orgasmic Farmer]

Slightly off topic....

but I reckon that there are probably large numbers of people out there claiming to charge VAT who never declare it simply because they know they can get away with it. I bought some large wood-working tools (thicknesser & saw bench) from Germany and being in the EC managed to get them without paying VAT (as I am VAT registered here). About 8 months later I get a frantic call from the shop in Stuttgart saying I had to pay him the VAT as the Tax office there were onto him since my VAT number did not exist. I asked him to read out the number and we found 2 digits the wrong way round. I never heard from him again. Funny though after 6 years in business in the UK I can't see the IR being quite as vigilant (just thinking of the carousel scams with mobile phones of a few years) back!)

[David Sparkes]

Orgasmic farmer, your experience mirrors my thoughts about what might happen, with some other seller of course.

So not so OT as you thought!!

[Guy H]

Just my 2p, whether it helps or not

I've used ASM a few times, it's a big business - offices, warehouse etc. They're happy for you to collect rather than pay p&p and I've never had a problem with anything I've bought from them.

But if there is a problem PayPal's guarantee is very good. Only had to use it twice (both times item significantly not as described not ASM though) and both times I ended up keeping the items and had all monies returned!! (sellers refused to pay for return postage)

Guy

[SteveG]

So how did you get on David? Did you buy a 3500?

I have had one from new and they are very good and it's taken a lot of abuse, only thing is that the screen has started to lose large chunks of sensitivity to the point that the pen is now pretty much useless.

300 pounds plus is a lot to spend on a used one with the risk of the screen going.

I've just bought an HP tx1340ea tablet and it works really well. It has 160GB HD 2GB Ram, Vista etc and is same laptop and tablet format as the toshibas. New it was 699 inc VAT.

Cheers

Steve

[geoffbeaumont]

considering most of the laptops bought and sold in the world are for business purposes it seems sensible to sell an item ex vat and then add that back on- it makes it a huge amount easier for business purchases.

I'd be very surprised if many businesses buy second hand laptops off eBay...

David - I'm not familiar with the going rate for tablets, but if you aren't dead set on a touchscreen then £300 will buy you either a very good recon laptop (IBM Thinkpads are a good bet - lots of decent ex-corporate ones on eBay, and they're built to last) or probably even a basic new one.

Personally selling tactics like the above make me take my money elsewhere too - I dislike the practice of adding VAT, especially as it's often buried at the bottom of the ad, and any seller who's declaring damage but failing to show it properly is almost certainly doing just enough to cover themselves when you find out it's much worse than you thought. It isn't hard to take an adequate digital photo...

[David Sparkes]

Guy H,

Thanks for the positives about ASM, that does make it more reassuring, but as you see, I still haven't motivated myself to do the deal.

Geoff,

"Personally selling tactics like the above ...." etc.

Thankyou I was beginning to think I was the only one.

Yes, I quite like the touchscreen, even if in the pub it just gets used to slide the display around as people say '... I meant this lane ...'. The tablet format just makes it easier to pass across the table, and as a gate opener it makes it easier to just slot the screen down the side of the seat, or pass to the driver, while I get out and get physical.

SteveG,

I had noticed that you appeared to have some sort of convertible fitted, so thankyou for the user report.

I haven't bought a 3500, but I haven't bought an alternative either, perhaps mainly because I haven't found an alternative source. As my comments have indicated I'm still reluctant to reward such selling tactics.

When it comes down to it, this is a vanity purchase, not a 'must have', and I guess this is why I don't feel like the £700 option, although that is a good price. For me, going over £300 was extravagent!!

Thankyou all.

[gordon123]

I use Panasonic CF25 Tough book cheap as chips, indestructible but a bit slow and temperamental, no USB, have to use serial port for GPS

CF 71 works well but not as tough, I did drop one down some concrete steps when on and when I put the keyboard hard drive back in it still booted up and ran OK (still working today!) I can highly recommend the CF71 as its cheap and works well with Memory map and has USB 13 in screen

Now the CF18 is a master piece, light, works very well! And does loads of other things to! Totally over the top and very desirable if left in the Landrover!

The Batteries are expensive to replace on all these though but happily run on external DC power with converter (I have run CF25 and CF71 DIRECTLEY wired to 12 power supply and they don’t run flat

So my opinion for what its worth is CF71, works OK for mapping and no disaster if stolen! (£60?)

Gordon